ORANGE TREE Pubs of Dover

DOVER KENT ARCHIVES

Sort file:- Dover, February, 2023.

Page Updated:- Sunday, 26 February, 2023.

PUB LIST

PUBLIC HOUSES

Barry Smith and Paul Skelton

Earliest 1873

Orange Tree

Latest 2006

357 Folkestone Road

Dover

Above photo pre WW2. Photo supplied by Stuart Kinnon.

Above photo 1953 showing a Mrs. Smith. At present I have no further details who she was. Anyone know? Kindly sent by Rory Kehoe.

Above photo of Orange Tree circa 1980, photo by Barry Smith.

Orange Tree circa 1987 (Photo by Paul Skelton)

Above photo circa 1990. Photo supplied by James Moore.

Orange Tree 2004.

Above photo of the Orange Tree just before closure 20 February 2006.

Sign left, 1990, sign right 2006.

With thanks from Brian Curtis www.innsignsociety.com.

Much of the groundwork concerning this licence was performed by Brazier and Curling in the last century. Brazier could even be said to have died whilst still trying. He had some support in 1873 when the owner of the "Tradesman's Arms" on Commercial Quay offered to transfer his licence. He was not permitted to do so.

From the Dover Express and East Kent News, Friday, 8 September, 1871. Price 1d.

APPLICATION FOR NEW LICENSES

In the next case, Mr. Lewis appeared in support of an application made by Mr. William Brazier for a license in respect to a newly-erected house upon the Maxton Estate. Mr. Lewis explained that Mr. brazier was at present licensee of the “Hare and Hounds,” a public-house about a quarter of a mile distant from the house in respect to which he now made application; and he thought the present was just one of those cases which would be exempted from the operation of the section of the recent Act or Parliament which had been quoted. Here was a newly-formed neighbourhood, consisting of some five-and–twenty or six-and-twenty houses, absolutely without a public-house. The nearest house, on the one hand, was the “Hare and Hounds,” to which he had already referred, and only beer could be obtained there; while, on the other, the nearest, the “Engineer,” was some half-a-mile distant.

Mr. Fox: There is one in Winchelsea Street, which is nearer.

Mr. Lewis: That may be nearer as the crow would fly; but it is about the same distance as a man would walk. He hoped the magistrates would hold, therefore, that this was one of the cases in which they might grant a license to the public advantage. As proof of the wishes of the neighbourhood, he presented a numerously-signed memorandum in favour of the application, which included the name of Major Munn, a county Magistrate, who resided at the opposite end of the estate. Major Munn was well known to the Magistrates; and it was his duty, no less than theirs, to conserve the spirit of the Act or Parliament; so that it was not likely he would have put his name to such a document inconsiderately, or if he had not thought that the accommodation which the memorial sought to have established was really necessary. Mr. Lewis also called attention to the fact that the house in question, which was built especially with a view to its use as a public-house, had been commenced before this Act of Parliament had been passed, and that to exercise its provisions strictly would therefore be an injustice, and such an injustice as he would contend the spirit of the Act intended to guard against.

Mr. Brazier, on being sworn, said he had occupied the “Hare and Hounds” for seventeen years. He had recently bought a plot of land upon the Maxton Estate, upon which he had erected the house which he now asked the Magistrates to license. His was the only plot intended for business purposes; and there was a large population upon the estate. The nearest house in which spirits could be obtained was at present the “Engineer,” on the Folkestone Road.
By Mr. Fox: I am still occupying the “Hare and Hounds.” That is a beer house. The “Grapes,” in Winchelsea Street, is half-a-mile away from the house I have erected, and I do not consider it more accessibly than the “Engineer.” Beer is sold at Worthington's Brewery, but not in small quantities, the smallest, I believe, being “four and a half.”

In re-examination by Mr. Lewis, Mr. Brazier said the “Hare and Hounds” was not adapted for the sale of spirits, and he never solicited a spirit license for that house, though he had often been asked for spirits.

Mr. Fox, in reply, rested his opposition on the clause of the Act of Parliament which had been already quoted. He contended that this was not a case in which public inconvenience would result from the refusal of the license, and it was not therefore such a one as was contemplated by the Act. He would confidently ask the Bench to say whether that fact of 26 houses was sufficient reason for the erection of a public-house, and whether it would not be a straining of the Act of Parliament to grant this application. As to the memorial which had been presented and the signature of Major Munn, about so much which had been said, it was very well known that Major Munn was a very amiable gentleman, and the Magistrates could well understand that he, like the other signatures, would be inclined to oblige the neighbour, seeing that it must be a matter of perfect indifference to him whether the license was withheld or not.

The Magistrates retired for the purpose of consulting, and on their return to Court, the Chairman announced that they had considered the arguments for and against the application, and had come to the determination of refusing it

From the Dover Express and East Kent Intelligencer, 31 August, 1877. Price 1d.

APPLICATIONS FOR NEW LICENSES

William Brazier, landlord of the "Orange Tree," of Maxton, applied for a spirit licence. Mr. W. Mowll objected, and the application was refused.

From the Dover Express and East Kent News, Friday 3 September, 1886. 1d.

DOVER LICENSING SESSIONS

Mr. Vernon Knocker applied for a license to sell beer on the premises at the house of Mr. Brazier, known as “The Orange Tree,” Maxton. It was stated that there was a license for selling beer off the premises and that there were a great many applications for ale on the premises.

Mr. Lewis opposed on behalf of the inhabitants, arguing that there was already ample accommodation.

Mr. Worsfold Mowll appeared on behalf of the owner of the “Hare and Hounds Inn,” about 300 yards further on the road.

The license was refused.

Mr. George Packham, and Mr. J. W. Wells applied severally for off licenses for houses at Union Road, Buckland, but in both instances the license was refused, owing to the houses not being of sufficient value.

From the Dover Express and East Kent News, Friday, 22 July, 1887. Price 1d.

BUSINESS PREMISES AT MAXTON

Persons who have an idea of securing business premises at Maxton should give their attention to the sale of property there next Thursday by Messrs. Terson and Son. The corner piece on which stands the “Orange Tree Inn,” and the freehold corner plot adjoining, are the only parts of this important estate that can be used for commercial purposes.

From the Dover Express and East Kent News, Friday 25 August, 1893. 1d.

THE ORANGE TREE, MAXTON

Mr. Hills, solicitor, of Ramsgate, applied on behalf of Mr. William Curling for a license to sell ale and beer for consumption on the premises, he now having an off license. He applied for this license four years ago. At that time there were less than fifty houses at Maxton, and now there were over 100 and 14 more in the course of building. He put in a memorial in favour of the license signed by most of the inhabitants, and by Mr. Major, a principal resident.

There was non one in attendance to oppose the license.

The Bench retired to consider the matter, and on returning announced that they had resolved to refuse the license.

This concluded the proceedings at the Dover Brewster Sessions.

Dover Express, Friday 12 December 1902.

Assault.

Alice Sargent was summoned for assaulting Albert Uden in the "Orange Tree" Maxton. She was bound over to keep the peace for 6 months and ordered to pay the costs 8s. 6d.

Dover Express 21st June 1918.

The Dover Tribunal 19th June 1918.

Mr. Harby appeared for Mr. H. Sergeant, aged 45, landlord of the “Orange Tree” Inn.

Applicant was also a contractor for motor transport which were doing work for the Navy and Army Canteen Board. Three months exemption was granted.

Applicant has had twelve years service with the colours, including the South African war and was there promoted King’s Corporal for services in the field.

From the Dover Express and East Kent News, Friday, 17 February, 1933. Price 1½d.

LICENSING EXTENSIONS

Mr. Sergeant of the "Orange Tree" was granted an occasional licence for The Drill Buffs Hall dance in aid of the Mayor's Benevolent Fund, February 13th.

Dover Express 6th August 1943.

Town, Port and Garrison.

“Sally” is the dog owned by Mr. George Watson, licensee of “The Orange Tree”, Maxton, Dover. She is well known to the customers, for, by begging for pennies, she has so far collected over £13 for local charities, as well as £1 each for the British Red Cross Society and the Cancer Hospital, London.

Dover Express 28th April 1944.

The Hospital Workers Committee have acknowledged another £5 from “Sally”, Mr. Watson’s wonder dog at the “Orange Tree”, Maxton.

Dover Express 14th July 1944.

TOWN, PORT AND GARRISON.

Mr. G. W. Watson of the “Orange Tree”, Folkestone Road, has received a letter from Mr. W. G. Jeffery, Secretary of the Royal Victoria Hospital Workers Joint Committee, thanking him for a further contribution of £5 from his dog, “Sally”. The letter states that the Committee had decided to present “Sally” with a collar suitably inscribed in appreciation of her work for the Hospital. Sally begs for pennies from the customers, picks the penny up in her mouth and carries it to the collecting box.

Dover Express 4th May 1945.

TOWN, PORT & GARRISON.

“Sally”, the well known dog at the “Orange Tree”, Maxton, is still begging for pennies for good causes. Her most recent effort has been to collect £2. 13s 6d in two weeks for the Maxton childrens’ peace trust.

Dover Express 28th June 1946.

TOWN, PORT & GARRISON.

Mr. Watson of the “Orange Tree”, the owner of the dogs, Sally and Judy, has just collected another £5 for the Dover Hospital. The dogs pick up the coins given by customers and receive a biscuit from the landlord.

The 'ale' off licence was procured that year but it was 1895 before Curling got the beer 'on' licence. His application had been backed by a petition signed by ninety of the one hundred and thirteen householders in the area. Looking towards the town, 136 dwellings had materialised between here and the "Engineer" at that time. In 1889 there had been less than fifty houses at Maxton but there were a hundred by 1893. The full licence came later the same year and by then it was on outlet of Dawes, the Maxton brewer.

Concerning the property itself, which was always described as a newly built house in the applications, it was the opinion of one of the past licensees that two cottages had been converted. They stood well back from the road and the conversion date is put at 1890.

From a publication written for http://kentww1.com 2018.

Mr H Sergeant, an ex soldier, was the landlord between March 1912 and 1936 and he also provided motor transport for the Navy and Army Canteen Board during WW1. Stringent licensing laws meant that; in addition to sale of alcohol being restricted to 2 hours at lunchtime; no member of the forces was allowed to be served alcohol until the evening.

The Defence of the Realm Act (DORA) had restricted when public houses were allowed to sell intoxicating liquor and there were further restrictions in garrison towns such as Dover. Although pubs could open to sell food and non alcoholic drinks from 5.30 a.m. they were only allowed to sell alcohol between 12-2.30p.m. and 6p.m.-8p.m. and were not allowed to sell spirits for consumption off the premises at the weekend. There were also restrictions on orders which were delivered to private houses.

The main impact on the customers was that they were not allowed credit or to buy a round of drinks ‘treating’ as it was known. The penalty for breaking the regulations was a fine (up to £100) or imprisonment. Customers were also not allowed to stand and drink at the bar - they would have to be seated and be served at their seats.

It is now a Whitbread outlet where the bars were improved by David Hanney in 1978.

The pub has been closed on numerous occasions, but after again opening in 2005, advertising that it was "Probably the best Pub in Dover" the pub finally closed in 2006 and is still waiting (April 2007) demolition for the building of flats on the site.

EDITORIAL

It is hoped that this modest first publication of the 'Orange Tree Observer' will be but the forerunner of regular monthly issues growing in size, scope and general interest as the months pass. The intention is to include news of forthcoming social and sporting events such as Darts and Cribbage Matches, results of games played during the previous month, snippets of history of the Orange Tree and the district of Maxton and any such items as may be considered to amuse or interest those who will form the bulk of our readership. To assist this end the editor will be very grateful to receive contributions from any who have an interesting (and printable!) story to tell. Particularly welcome would be anecdotes and reminiscences from the older regulars concerning the earlier days of the pub. There is no need to compose an essay or even so much as to write it down; a chat with the editor over a pint will suffice.

Those responsible for social fixtures are also urged to give details to the editor before the last week of each month, together with team lists where applicable. With your help this may well become, to coin an atrociously punning phrase, "your very own 'local' rag."

WHAT'S IN A NAME!

Why Orange Tree? As far as one knows no orange tree ever grew in Maxton and very few regulars over the age of consent ever drink the juice of that otherwise blameless fruit, (the hop and the bar-Ley-mow taking precedence!) Local tradition has it that the pub was originally two cottages, in the front gardens of which grew two trees closely resembling the orange .... Hence the name. However, its use as an innsign has much earlier connections. During the reign of Charles II orange trees were one of the ornaments of St. James' Park (London) which was then, of course part of the St. James' Palace gardens. At that period and long after, orange trees were mostly used as sign boards for the Seed Shops and by Italian Merchants and were gradually adopted as inn-signs.

It is an interesting coincidence that one of the two excellent floodlit pictures in the Public Bar Gamesroom is of the lake in St. James' Park. The other picture, incidentally, is a view of the Norfolk Broads. The actual place is not named but I should imagine it to be either Wroxham or Horning.

LATE SUMMER BANK HOLIDAY EXTENSIONS.

The week-end which sees the publication of this issue is the new-style August Bank Holiday week-end. All topers and others in festive-mood should take note of the following extensions to the closing times. Friday, August 29th, 11 p.m. Saturday, 30th August, 11.30 p.m. Sunday, 31st August and Monday, 1st September, the normal hour of 10.30 p.m.

DARTS MATCHES.

Unfortunately at the time of going to press no details are available of forthcoming fixtures. These will, however, be publicized on the Notice Boards. We congratulate the team on a close-run victory in the 1st Round of the 'Fremlin's Cup (or should it now be the Whitbread's Cup, or possible the Frembread's or Whitlin's!) Excellent home and away legs were played against the "Royal Oak", River. The away match, which came first, was narrowly lost by 3 games to 2, but a 4 - 1 victory at home ensured a passage into the next round. I would like to Publish more detailed scores in future, together with the names of team members, if one of the players would kindly furnish the information. So, Peter, Jim, Mick, Pluto and Co., rake up a pen from among you and let us all share the news.

TONSORIAL ARTISTRY.

The Orange Tree is astonishing for the scope and variety of its services to the public. Not only is the landlord knocked-up a half an hour after midnight for five-bob's worth of coppers for a late card-school, (this actually once happened though his reaction is not reported!) but even more fundamental needs are catered for. Did you know, for example, that once every three weeks on a Thursday evening a fully qualified, top-rate barber is in attendance in the Gamesroom?

Why not make use, of this excellent service? Ask the Landlord for details. Instead of staring glumly at ancient copies of Reveille or Week-End whilst you endlessly wait your turn, why not quaff a pint or two in convivial company. Away with those feeble and time-worn excuses about taking the dog for a walk, going out to post a letter or running out of cigarettes! You can now truthfully say, "I'm just going up the road for a haircut". A likely story indeed, but you can go home with a short-back-and-sides to prove it. '''And what is that alcoholic smell?" "Oh, that's the Bay Rum, my dear."

MINIPOT.

At the time of going to press the Minipot has not been won for several weeks so there is now a quite healthy little sum to be won by some lucky member (or members). When it has "gone" and the next ''Pot'' opens, why not join in and try your hand at this very pleasant little Saturday lunchtime relaxation? The more members, the bigger the "pot" and the better the prizes. You need no knowledge of form or horseflesh, just a touch of Luck. The merest novice stands as much chance as the expert. Give it a go next time! The relevant notices are always to be seen under the clock in the Public Bar.

CLOSING DATE FOR MATERIAL FOR THE NEXT ISSUE is Sunday, 28th September.

OVERHEARD IN ANOTHER PUB, where a convivial company (probably a wedding party) were getting in their umpteenth round of drinks. "What do you mean, you can't manage another.... just have a Double Diamond then." "Oh no", replied a very frail and elderly man, "I'll just have a single."

WOT! Nothing in this space?

Let's have some material for next month please"

Whether or not there was another publication I haven't yet found one. (Paul Skelton.)

From the Dover Express, 21 June, 2001.

Pub plans to improve.

THE Orange Tree public house, Dover, has been taken over by a new landlord and landlady.

Chris and Dawn Ripley have moved in with their five year old twins Lauren and James, and have vowed to make much-needed improvements to the pub.

Dawn said: "We have completely refurbished the kitchen and are planning to make major changes.

"We've got a lot of work ahead of us but we are enjoying it."

The Orange Tree will hold a boot fair on Sunday July 1 and a house and garage music night on July 22.

From the Dover Express, 21 February 2002.

THE new licensee of the Orange Tree pub in Folkestone Road believes he might be the youngest publican in Britain.

Marcel Blythe, 20 was granted a full licence recently. He has been at the Orange Tree for five months and, after attending court and satisfying the requirements of the chiefs of the police and fire brigade, now has his name above the door.

Mr Blythe runs the pub with business partner David Bliss and enjoys the responsibility.

After he was granted the licence he phoned the national trade publication. The Publican, and asked it to check to see who the youngest full licensee in Britain was. When Marcel reported his own age it appeared it could possibly be him.

Mr Blythe moved to Dover after working in a five-star hotel in Doncaster. He intends to make a career of bar management and hopes eventually to run his own business.

He said: "I enjoy this job because you get to talk to lots of different people. Everyone knows each other here at the Orange Tree as it's a real back street boozer.

"I don't find the responsibility daunting. Eventually I'd like to be my own boss and manage my own pub."

A spokesman for The Publican said: "He's probably one of the youngest but we've had quite a few letters from people of Marcel's age.

"A few years ago the government started training of 16-year-olds who, a few days after their 18th birthday, would apply for a licence - so there are probably a few licensees younger than Mr Blythe across the country."

From the Dover Express, 19 January, 2006.

Flats development raises crime and drugs worries.

Report by Jonathan Holden

PLANS to convert the Orange Tree pub into flats have been met with concerns over crime levels and drug use in the Priory area of Dover.

The police and the district council's anti-social behaviour unit have both raised safety concerns over the development.

Anti-social behaviour chief Chris Allen believes there is a "high risk" that problems with drug dealers and drug users experienced in the area five years ago could be repeated.

His warning on the Westbury Road development follows a deluge of applications to convert the area's large town houses into flats and bedsits.

In a report to the council's planning committee, he wrote: "Currently Folkestone Road and the surrounding streets give an impression of being run down.

This has the effect of encouraging those who wish to commit crime and involve themselves in anti-social behaviour.

"It is noted from this application that the flats are small and hardly indicative of an upmarket development... concern is expressed that these flats will be used for housing people in need on a temporary basis."

Mr Allen said the sheer number of applications to convert properties on or near Folkestone Road had "serious implications for the police, council, NHS and emergency services".

Kent Police have raised similar concerns and pointed to the area's recent past. They described how bed and breakfasts and small flats and bedsits "allowed drug dealing and bootlegging to flourish" at the turn of the century.

The force has asked the district council's planning committee to "carefully consider" the size and quality of the flats planned for the Orange Tree.

The issue is due to be debated this evening and councillors have been recommended to pass the application. Councillors have been told the flats largely comply with the council's' draft guidelines on conversions.

Members have also been reminded that plans to convert 126 Folkestone Road were blocked on the grounds they could affect crime; disorder and anti-social behaviour.

That application and another, which "would have seen homeless people placed in an Effingham Crescent guest house, are currently under appeal.

The town council has formally objected to the proposals, arguing there would be too many residences on the site.

The Priory Forum also opposes the plan, raising concerns about flooding and the site's poor access.

From the Dover Mercury, Thursday 22 April, 2010.

PUB CONVERSION.

PLANS to convert the former "Orange Tree" pub in Folkestone Road, Dover, into a house, together with a single-storey rear extension, are being considered by the district council. It is also being proposed that the garage be turned into a living room, with a rear extension and lobby being demolished.

From the Dover Express, 22 April, 2010.

ORANGE TREE CHANGES RAISED.

AN application is to be made to the planners at Dover District Council to convert the Orange Tree public house in Dover's Folkestone Road into a home with an extension.