72 Margate Road
Ramsgate
https://whatpub.com/derby-arms
Above photo, circa 1904 possibly showing the licensee and staff. |
Above photo showing "Derby Arms" on the left, circa 1904. |
Above photo 1925, showing the viaduct being built, kindly sent by Rory
Kehoe. |
Above photo, circa 1932, kindly sent by Rory Kehoe. Shown in the
livery of Gardner's Ash Brewery and described (in Gardner's publicity
booklet "From a Corner of Kent") as being ideal for those taking their
holidays in Ramsgate. |
Above photo 2015, with the Viaduct in shot. kindly sent by Rory Kehoe. |
Above photo taken with permission from
Saunders family web. |
Above sign left, December 1991, sign right 2012.
With thanks from Brian Curtis
www.innsignsociety.com.
|
This pub predates the viaduct which overlooks it by over half a century.
It was rated to James Collyer as early as 1849 and named after Edward George
Stanley, 14th Earl of Derby, former MP, scholar and fan of the turf.
Exterior has blue plaque in place, dedicated to writer and broadcaster
Frank Muir, who grew up there.
The pub I am informed by Michael Mirams, closed some time in 2014 and is
currently (2015) boarded up.
Above Google image, July 2015. |
Thanet Advertiser, Saturday 21 July 1877.
John Solley and Charles Sully with charged with being drunk and refusing
to quit the "Derby Arms," Margate Road, when requested to do so, on the
11th July.
The first named defendant did not appear in answer to the summons, and a
warrant was issued for his apprehension.
The case against the other defendant was then proceeded with, and John
Knowles, the landlord said the defendant came to his house on the day in
question in the afternoon. He was drunk, and the witness's wife refused
to serve him. He became very abusive, and as he would not leave the
house a constable was called in, and the defendant then went away
He was fined 2s. 6d. and 9s. costs.
Eliza Knowles was charged with refusing to quit the "Derby Arms" on the
3rd instant, and on the case being proved she was fined 2s. 6d. and 9s.
costs.
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Thanet Advertiser, Saturday 14 January 1882.
Drunk on Licensed Premises.
William Crockett was also charged for being drunk on licensed premises,
on the 27th December last.
Mr. Parry appeared for defendants who pleaded not guilty.
P.C. Cashford said that at 10 p.m. on the day in question he visited the
"Derby Arms," St Lawrence, then kept by George Peake. He saw defendant
at the bar in a most stupid state of drunkenness. He called the
attention of the landlord to defendant who was then ordered by the
landlord to keep quiet and leave the house. Witness was was in company
with P.C. Archer. There were no customers in the bar besides defendant;
a person named Spain was not present at the time.
By Mr. Parry:- He saw defendant drink something out of a pewter pot. He
left the house before defendant. Before he went into the house defendant
served him with something in a pewter pot. Defendant was quite drunk
when he called the landlord's attention to him. He was also making a
noise.
By Superintendent Buss:- He had been outside the house for 2 hours
previous to entering. P.C. Archer corroborated.
Mr. Parry said he was instructed that defendant was not usually very
"bright" and on the night named went into the public house and had a
pint of beer. He was not at all noisy, but was there, he believed some
time.
George Peake said that on 27th December last he was landlord of the
"Derby Arms." He remembered defendant being in his house. When defendant
first came witness was not present. At the time the Constable came the
defendant was not drunk. There were three others present when the
Constables came in and amongst them being Mr. Spain and Mr. Cox.
Defendant cause no disturbance whatever, but he had a process habit of
chattering, which it was difficult to stop. He did not serve defendant
with any drink during the evening and did not notice the constables more
than once. He first went into the bar about 9 o'clock; the barmaid was
serving previous to that.
By Superintendent Buss:- Defendant was in front of the bar, and the
others were by the side of him when the constables came in. He did not
serve defendant with any drink. His barmaid told him she had served
defendant with a pint of beer. She had since left. Witness believed he
wished defendant to leave because he was chattering so fast as to annoy
his customers. When the constables came in they called for a pint of
ale.
Superintendent Buss said it was only fair to say that the constables
went to the house on two different occasions. He thought Mr. Peake was
making a mistake.
Mr. Peake said he could not swear to the date of the evening, but on the
evening last he was cautioned he told defendant to leave the house
because he was talking so fast as to annoy the customers. He could swear
that on the day he was cautioned the constables had a pint of ale.
Henry Spain said he was a paper-hanger and lived at Clarence Terrace. He
remembered the 27th December. He went into the "Derby Arms" about 9
o'clock, and saw defendant and 4 others in front of the bar. Defendant
was not drunk. He did not see the constables come in. Witness left about
10 o'clock.
Mr. Parry said there was evidently some mistake in the dates.
Defendant was then fined 1s. and 13s costs, a week being allowed him to
pay the money in.
George Peake was then charged with unlawfully permitting drunkenness on
his licensed premises, the "Derby Arms" on 27th December.
Mr. Parry said that defendant, acting on his advice, would plead guilty.
Find 10s. and 9s. costs.
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Thanet Advertiser, Saturday 3 October 1891.
ADJOURNED LICENSING SESSIONS.
The adjourned licensing sessions for the Ramsgate division of the county
was held at the Town Hall on Wednesday morning. The following justices
were present:- Mr. H. B. Hammond (chairman), Capt. L. W. Vaile, and Mr.
H. Weigall.
THE DERBY ARMS.
The next application was one made by Mrs. Arthy, of the "Derby Arms,"
for a renewal of the license of that house.
Replying to the Bench, Superintendent Buss stated that on the 17th
September applicant was fined 40s. and 14s. costs for an offence under
the licensing laws.
The Clerk observed that the license had not been endorsed.
Mrs. Arthy said she was not responsible for the conviction which had
been recorded against her. She intended now to transfer the house.
The Chairman said the Bench were not at all satisfied with the manner in
which the house had been conducted, and unless the reports concerning it
improved, the renewal would be refused another year. He hoped the person
to whom the house was to be transferred was of respectable character.
They would grant the application.
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Thanet Advertiser, Saturday 29 August 1891.
A Case Dismissed.
Emma Arthy was summoned on an adjournment for allowing intoxicating
liquor to be consumed at the "Derby Arms" during prohibited hours.
Defendant pleaded not guilty.
P.C. Creedy said that on the 6th of August, at 11:35 p.m. he was on duty
in the Margate Road. Seeing the door of the "Derby Arms" wide open he
visited the house and found three men in the bar, the manager and his
niece being behind it. There was a glass of beer standing on the counter
which a man named Marshall drank. Witness then asked the "manager" why
the house was open so late and where the landlady was, and he replied
that they had been out for the evening and had just returned in a cab,
which was standing outside the door. He also said that Mrs. Afthy had
gone to look for them, meaning himself and a lodger, who was standing in
front of the bar. Witness ask Marshall who paid for the beer and he said
he did not know - it was his and he should drink it, which she did.
There were other glasses on the table. Mrs. Arthy came in and he asked
her why the house was open, when she said she did not know it was open.
Witness drew her attention to a woman who was sitting in a chair and
defendant then closed the house. She said she'd had closed it before she
went out.
Cross examined witness said one of the men, named Wrightson, was coming
away from the bar as he entered, but he came in again. The house was
generally closed about 10:55, in fact, sometimes as early as 10. Since
the house had been in the present hands it had been fairly well
conducted. One of the men was drinking beer. Two of the men claimed to
be drivers of the carriage. He saw no money pass.
In defence James Hopkins was called. He said he had resided at the
"Derby Arms" about 5 months. On the evening of 6th August he went out
with another lodger named Vickerstaff. They returned to the "Derby Arms"
in a cab, driven by a lad named Marshall. They found the house closed
and most of the lights out, but upon knocking they were admitted by
defendant niece. Inside the cab were also Mr. Wrightson and a woman to
whom they had given a lift. Witness asked the driver if he would have a
drink, and upon his accepting, witness himself drew him a glass of ale.
No one had any beer except the driver and the house had only been open a
few minutes when the policeman came in.
Mrs. Vickerstaff corroborated.
William Marshall, the coachman, also gave evidence in support of
defendant's case.
The Bench retired and upon their return the Chairman said the case was a
very proper one to bring before the magistrate. There was, however, some
doubt and the defendant would have the benefit of it, and the case will
be dismissed. She must in future be careful not to allow lodges to draw
beer just as they liked.
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Thanet Advertiser. Saturday 18 September 1897.
Serving a policeman with drink. A publican heavily fined.
At the Ramsgate Police Court yesterday (Friday) before Mr. H. Weigall
(in the chair), Councillor A. J. Richford, Mr. G. Vye, and Mr. S. R.
Wilson, George Hothersall, landlord of the "Derby Arms," was summoned
for that he, on September 11th, being a licensed person, did unlawfully
supply Police Constable Reid with intoxicating liquor during the period
he was on duty, without authority from the Superior Officer. Defendant
pleaded not guilty and was represented by Mr. J. Emery.
P.C. George Paine said in consequence of instructions received from the
Chief Constable he kept observation on the "Derby Arms" on the evening
of 11th September. About 10:50 he saw P.C. Reid come down the road and
look into the window of the private bar. Defendant's daughter came to
the door and appeared to speak to the Constable. She returned to the bar
and came back in a minute and handed him something but he could not say
what it was. He walked out into the road and the girl went back into the
house. The girl then came out almost immediately with a quart beer can
in her hand and placed it on with windowsill of the Princes' Road, side
of the house. She went in and Reid whet across and took the can and
drank something from it. He was on duty and had his armlette on. He went
back into the Margate Road and then defendant came out of the side door
and closed it. The Constable went back and had another drink over of the
can. Sergeant Cox came down the road and seeing the can went and looked
in it. Witness waiting for some time but nobody came to take away the
can, and, about 12 o'clock knocked the door. He failed to get an answer
but called on defendant the next morning, Sunday, and said he should
have to report him for serving a Constable with intoxicating liquor
while on duty, and told him what he had seen on the previous night.
Defendant asked if he could not let him off with a caution, that being
the first time, and said he would rather have given £50 and have been
caught so easily, and added. "I always close my house at the proper
time." Witness asked if his daughter was in, and he said she was in bed
and would go and fetch your. He did so. All the conversation that
followed was in the defendant's presence. Witness asked the daughter if
the Constable had paid for the beer she had put on the windowsill, and
she replied that she had not taken any beer out for a Constable, but
gave one some biscuit and cheese at the door, which he paid for. She
said the beer she placed on the windowsill was for a navvy looking man,
but she did not know his name or who he was. Defendant then said, "When
they were busy they sometimes placed beer outside in order to clear the
house quickly," and also stated that "he might have been in the taproom
at the time the beer was taking out." Witnessed told him that only five
or six people came out of his house that night, and therefore there was
no necessity to place it there because he was busy. He also asked
defendant if he had ever had any complaints of the beer being stolen
from the sill, and he replied that he had not. On the Saturday night
witness examined the can on the sill and found it contained a small drop
of beer.
By the Chief Constable:- He kept observations on the house till nearly
12 o'clock, but did not see anyone having the appearance of a navvy go
to the sill for the can.
The witness was not cross-examined.
P.C. Frederick Reid said about 10:50 p.m. on the day in question he was
on duty in the Margate road. Feeling hungry he went to the "Derby Arms"
and asked the landlord's daughter for a biscuit and cheese, which she
brought to the door and he paid for it. She then asked if he would like
to have a drink, or words to that effect. He said "yes," but told her he
could not drink it in the house, and she must bring it outside. Just
afterwards she brought out a pint of ale and beer in a quart can and
placed it on the windowsill. Witnessed went and drank some of it, and
seeing P.C. Bishops close by he went and asked if he would have half of
it. He said "No," stating that he had had some at home. Witness then
returned and finished that beer, and then went back to Bishop. Whilst
standing there P.C. Cox came down the road and seeing the can picked it
up and looked in it. Witness went across and told him it was right, and
then walked on his beat.
By the Chief Constable: He had not had permission from his superior
officer to have refreshments while on duty. The defendant's daughter did
not ask if he had permission. He was wearing his armlet.
Cross-examined by Mr. Emery: Bishop was not there when he arrived.
Witnessed did not know Paine was keeping observation. He had been on
this beat before, but not seen cans on the sill. He believe this was his
first experience at the house.
Re-examined by the Chief Constable: He had had drink before at this
house while on duty.
The Chief Constable said he would close the case with a calling further
evidence. There was only Sergeant Cox, who came round and met the
Constable there whilst on the beat.
Mr. Emery said he did not think, after the Bench had heard the evidence
for the defence, they would have the slightest hesitation in dismissing
the case. Reviewing the evidence he disagreed with the statement that
the girl looked out of the door first. His client knew nothing at all of
the circumstances, for he was not in the bar at the time and did not
know what had occurred. He did not know it until Paine mentioned that he
had reported him for a breach of the law, and therefore his statements
were only based upon assumption of what might have occurred, and did not
prejudice him in anyway. Mr. Emery went on to state that the defence was
that the beer was placed on the sill for a customer.
The Chairman: Do you suggest that the policeman stole the beer, then?
Mr. Emery said he was not there to defend the Constable. His client was
charged with a criminal offence. The Constable, if he did not steal the
beer, knew that if he went to the house on duty it would be a criminal
offence for the publican to serve him, yet he came there and boldly gave
evidence that he went to the house and took a pint of beer off the
windowsill.
Lilian Hothersall, daughter of defendant, said she was serving in the
bar on September 11th in the evening. Reid came to the door and asked
for some biscuits and cheese. Should had not been out to see if he was
there. She took the biscuits and cheese to him on a plate. He then
returned into the bar a man put down two pence for a pint of beer and
asked for it in a bottle. She said she had not got a bottle but would
put it in a can on the windowsill outside.
The Chairman: Did you know that man?
Witness: No. Continuing, she said their customers frequently asked for a
drink just before going and to prevent them having it in the house they
put it outside and they went out and got it.
The Chairman: Do you do that for all people you don't know?
Witness: To anyone. She had that they put the cans outside and took them
in again in the morning. She first heard of an offence on the Sunday
morning.
Cross-examined by the Chief Constable: The man who ordered the beer was
a shabby-looking fellow, and quite like a navvy. She had not seen him
since and would not know him again if she did. She had not heard of any
complaints that he had lost the beer. Asked why she put the beer on the
side window sill instead of near the door, and being reminded that the
man was a stranger, she said that she did not know.
In reply to the Chairman, witness said she did not ask the Constable to
have any beer.
Mrs. Emma Forfar said she was staying at the "Derby Arms" for a week
end. Just before 11 o'clock she went down into the bar, and said to Miss
Hothersall, "It's time." A man in the bar put down two pence saying, "A
pint o' beer in a bottle." She said, "All right, I'll put the beer
outside." Witness said. "It's time," and she then looked around and got
a can to put it outside. Witness then left the bar.
The magistrates retired to consider the case, and on returning into
court the Chairman said: "It is the unanimous opinion of this Bench that
this case is fully proved. You must know you are responsible for the
actions of your servant. We are quite willing to believe that you knew
nothing about this individual case, but we look on it as a very grave
offence. You will be fined £5 and costs 13s. As this is the first
offence, we shall not endorse your licence.
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Thanet Advertiser, Saturday 15 March 1902.
Charge Against an Italian Woman.
Maria Schirvo, married, of 6, Kent Villas, Central Road, was summoned
for sending and Anunziato Schirvo, a person under the age of 14 years to
the "Derby Arms" public house for the purpose of obtaining a pint of
beer not being sold in a corked or sealed vessel, on March 2nd.
Mr. Bonugli acted as interpreter.
Defendant pleaded not guilty.
Detective Sergeant Paine said on the date named he saw a girl carrying a
large bottle in the direction of the "Derby Arms," and the afterwards
saw her coming back with a bottle filled with beer. Witness followed the
girl to her home and asked her, in the presence of her mother, how old
she was. She said "Fourteen." Witness then asked the mother how old the
girl was, and she also made the same reply. The defendant's passport
(produced) showed the child was 12 years of age.
Miss Lily Hothersall, daughter of the licensee of the "Derby Arms," said
the girl came to the house and said she wanted a pint of beer. She had
been a few days previously and said she was 14. Witness believed her.
Through the medium of the interpreter defendant pleaded ignorance of the
law, but the Bench doubted the genuineness of this want of knowledge,
and fined her 17s. including costs.
The money was paid by a friend in court.
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Thanet Advertiser, Saturday 31 October 1903.
A Noisy Customer.
Edward Settersfield, labourer, of Arnett's lodging house, was charged
with being drunk and disorderly in Margate Road on October 26th.
He pleaded not guilty.
George Henry Hothersall of the "Derby Arms," said prisoner came into the
bar and asked for a half pint of beer. Witness thought he was under the
influence of drink and asked him to leave the premises refusing to serve
in. prisoner then abused him, using very abusive and obscene language.
Witnessed called in a Constable and requested prisoner again to leave
the premises. He did so, and continued to use very bad language outside,
and the Constable took him into custody. Witness had had trouble with
the prisoner before and had refused to serve him.
Prisoner denied he had been previously refused at the house.
P.C. Gambrill (No. 17) said he was on duty in the Margate Road on the
previous afternoon when he was called to the "Derby Arms" to eject the
prisoner, who was drunk. Witness asked him to leave and when outside, he
became very disorderly in his behaviour and used a lot of bad language.
Witnessed took him into custody and he continued his conduct until they
reached the station, swearing in a loud tone. There were a good many
people about at the time.
Prisoner denied using the language of attributed to him. He went into
the house and called for a half pint of beer and Mr. Hothersall said, "I
shan't serve you." He asked the reason and the reply was, "It doesn't
matter. I shan't serve you." They had a few words, and the Constable was
called. The Constable at once caught hold of him (prisoner) by the
shoulders and marched him off to the station. Several times he offered
to walk along quietly.
P.C. Gambrill:- You attempted to lie down several times on the way to
the police station.
Alfred Settersfield, prisoners brother, who was not present at the
"Derby Arms," said he saw the prisoner in custody afterwards. The
Constable had hold of his brother pretty tight and pushed him more than
was necessary. Prisoner was not drunk, but he and witness had been out
selling herrings that day, and they had had a few half pints and no
food. Since prisoner have been home from India, a little beer got into
his head.
The Mayor said there would be a conviction, and the Chief Constable
reported five previous convictions - chiefly at Margate - for
drunkenness, refusing to quit licensed premises, and stealing.
The Bench imposed a fine of 10s. including costs; in default 10 days'
imprisonment.
Prisoner asked for time, but the application was objected to by the
Chief Constable, and the fine was paid.
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East Kent Times 9th May 1941.
WOMAN LICENSEE'S DEATH.
Licensee of the Derby Arms, Margate Road, Ramsgate, Kent for thirty-two
years, Mrs Elizabeth Jane Greig died last week, aged sixty-nine years.
She was twice married and her second husband is now abroad.
The funeral took place at Ramsgate Cemetery on Saturday, conducted by
the Vicar of Ramsgate (The Rev C R Farnsworth), following a service in
St Lawrence Church.
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LICENSEE LIST
BRANN David Cover 1871+
KNOWLES John 1874+
HILTON Charles H 1881+ (age 30 in 1881)
PEAKE George to Dec/1882
CRAIG W 1882+
NORMINTON Jane Ann Mrs 1890-91+
ARTHY George F 1891+ (age 50 in 1891)
ARTHY Emma to Oct/1891
HOTHERSALL Alice Mrs 1891-Nov/1904 (age 42 in 1901)
HOTHERSALL George Henry 1897-03+
LUKEHURST Louise William Nov/1904-07+
WEBBER Frank Herbert 1913-18+
WEBBER Elizabeth Jane 1922+
GREIG Elizabeth Jane Mrs 1929-39+ (nee Webber age 69 in 1939)
DAVIES R E 1951-55+
SPIERS A C 1957+
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Census
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