DOVER KENT ARCHIVES

Sort file:- Canterbury, June, 2022.

Page Updated:- Sunday, 26 June, 2022.

PUB LIST PUBLIC HOUSES Paul Skelton

Earliest 1882-

Two Doves

Closed Feb 2019

25 Nunnery Fields

Canterbury

01227 763750

https://www.whatpub.com/two-doves

Two Doves 1965

Above photograph by Edward Wilmot in 1965.

Two Doves

Two Doves, Canterbury.

Two Doves 2005

Above photo 2005.

Two Doves 2022

Above photo 2022.

Two Doves sign 1971Two Doves sign 1991

Two Doves sign left July 1971. Sign right November 1991

Above with thanks from Brian Curtis www.innsignsociety.com

Two Doves sign 2010Two Doves sign 2017

Above sign left 2010, sign right, 2017.

 

The premises probably started life as a bake-house but by 1882 was serving ale, but operating as a beer house until at least 1902.

 

From the Kentish Gazette Friday May 11th 1962.

Two Doves team 1962

In the The Two Doves, the runners up darts team.

Left to right, back; B. Wood, B. Coleman, Alfie Wiles, J. Blannchell, B. Higgins, A. Gaskin, B. Wickenden.

Front; H. Kay, C. Wilson, R. Lane (captain) , N. Olive, D. Cooper.

 

Originally a Fremlins house this was sold to Shepherd Neame in 1972.

February 2019 I am informed that the licensee has closed the pub and is applying for planning consent for 2 flats.

April 2019 I am informed that the application was rejected by the Council.

 

Two Doves 2019

Above photo, February 2019. Kindly taken and sent by Rory Kehoe.

From the https://www.kentonline.co.uk By Jack Dyson, 19 March 2022.

‘No prospect’ of historic Canterbury pub Two Doves reopening.

A historic pub that has sat empty for three years would need a £84,000 cash injection to be revived, papers show.

A fresh bid to transform the long-empty Two Doves in Nunnery Fields, Canterbury, into two houses has been launched by firm LJW Developments.

Documents lodged with Canterbury City Council reveal part of the old boozer’s ceiling has collapsed following a leak and that a potential landlord would earn just £10,000 a year in trade.

And chartered surveyor Nigel Thirkell thinks “there is no real prospect” of the tavern, which sold its first pint in 1880s, being able to trade viably again.

“The refurbishment cost (would be) in excess of £84,000 for the trade areas alone,” he explained.

“The cost of improvements to the facilities and décor cannot be justified by the potential future earnings that operators perceive possible.

“Many similar pubs have ceased trading in Canterbury and across the country because of the reduced profitability of small, wet-led businesses.

“I believe there is no real prospect of the Two Doves being able to trade in a viable manner in the foreseeable future.”

The pub has remained shut since 2019, when LJW Developments unveiled similar plans to turn it into two properties.

At the time, it was revealed the site's trading loss of £740 in 2013 rose to more than £9,100 in 2017, with its tumbling earnings blamed on its size and “inability to develop to provide a food offer”.

The local authority snubbed the scheme, before marketing company Sibley Pares put the old alehouse – which is thought to have been built in the 1800s – on the market for £425,000.

But a report compiled by estate agency worker Ned Gleave says it received no offers in the 12 months it was up for sale.

“The property continues to fall into a dilapidated state, incurring insurance, utilities and other maintenance related costs,” he said.

“A total of 11 separate enquires were received throughout the marketing period and no offers have been received to date.

“It is clear there is no demand for the property for its continued use as a public house or for alternative commercial uses.

“Meanwhile, the residential market continues to improve for which price growth has reached record levels in the same timescale.”

It received interest from two potential buyers who were considering bringing the pub back to life, while two others were looking to transform it into a takeaway or a restaurant.

But Mr Gleave says they concluded it was in an “unviable location due to low levels of passing trade” and that the cost to refurbish the building would be too high.

Meanwhile, the "Cross Keys", which is 160 metres from the Two Doves in Oaten Hill, remains boarded up as the search for a new operator enters its 14th month.

Owner Star Pubs and Bars is planning a £300,000 transformation to turn it into a “modern and quirky” inn, but it is waiting until a new licensee comes on board before beginning the rest of the work.

A spokesman for the firm told KentOnline: “We’re in discussions with a licensee interested in taking on The "Cross Keys" and hope these will come to a positive conclusion in the next few months."

 

From the Canterbury Gazette, 24 March 2022. By Jack Dyson.

Let me save historic city pub from being turned into houses.

A landlady is still holding out hope of saving a historic pub after plans were revived to turn it into houses.

A fresh bid to transform the "Two Doves" in Nunnery Fields, Canterbury, into two homes has been launched by firm LJW Developments.

Documents lodged with the city council say “there is no real prospect” of the tavern, which sold its first pint in the 1880s, being able to trade viably again.

But Katrina Maclean, who runs the "New Inn" in Havelock Street, believes she would be able to breathe new life into the boozer.

Ketrina Macleane 2022

“It'd just be a talking pub, no live music or anything like that to upset any of the neighbours. It would be viable,” she said.

“I’ve got a wet-trade pub and it’s been doing better and better as the years have gone by.

“We weren’t affected too much by the coronavirus.

“It’s got an enormous amount of support. I get emails from residents’ groups and Camra asking what the latest is with the Two Doves.”

Ms Maclean says she would turn it into a smaller version of the "New Inn," and subsidise her income from the business by renting out the flat above.

The pub has remained shut since 2019, when LJW Developments unveiled similar plans to turn it into two properties.

At the time, it was revealed the site’s trading loss of £740 in 2013 rose to more than £9,100 in 2017. Its tumbling earnings were blamed on its size and “inability to develop to provide a food offer”.

The local authority snubbed the housing scheme, before marketing company Sibley Pares put the old alehouse - thought to have been built in the 1800s -on the market for £425,000.

A report compiled by estate agency employee Ned Gleave says the company received no offers in the 12 months it had been marketing the property.

“The property continues to fall into a dilapidated state, incurring insurance, utilities and other maintenance related costs,” he said.

“A total of 11 separate enquires were received throughout the marketing period and no offers have been received to date.

“It is clear there is no demand for the property for its continued use as a public house or for alternative commercial uses.

“Meanwhile, the residential market continues to improve, for which price growth has reached record levels in the same timescale.”

Mr Gleave says he received interest from two potential buyers who were considering bringing the pub back to life, while two others were looking to transform it into a takeaway or a restaurant.

However, he insists they concluded it was in an “unviable location due to low levels of passing trade” and that the cost to refurbish the building would be too high.

But emails shared with the Gazette show Ms Maclean lodged two offers - one for £350,000 two years ago and another of £400,000 in June - for the site.

The businesswoman expects it would cost her about £25,000 to fit out the "Two Doves" - but papers submitted with the local authority by LJW state the refurbishment bill would be £84,000.

Chartered surveyor Nigel Thirkell says “there is no real prospect of the Two Doves being able to trade in a viable manner in the foreseeable future”.

“I’ve put in offers and been trying,” Ms Maclean continued.

“I can’t force them to sell to me, but it makes me cross when they say it’s not worthwhile.” When asked about Ms Maclean’s offer of last year. Sibley Pares told the Gazette had not met the asking price at that the firm's requests for pro of funds or finance arrangements were not answered.

Without these, the company says it could not put the bid forward for consideration and therefore, did not record it.

 

From the https://www.kentonline.co.uk By Jack Dyson, 7 April 2022.

Canterbury protesters’ plea: keep our pubs alive.

Dozens of placard-waving pub lovers descended on a historic inn to rail against plans that would see it lost forever.

The demonstrators gathered outside the Two Doves in Nunnery Fields, Canterbury, on Saturday – shortly after firm LJW Developments lodged fresh proposals to transform it into two houses.

Two Doves protesters 2022

Demonstrators gathered outside the Canterbury pub at the weekend. Picture: Nathan Eaton-Baudains.

Outside the shut-down premises, activists wielded signs displaying messages including “beer before bedsits”, “pints over profit” and “keep our pubs alive”.

Among the protesters was Barton councillor Connie Nolan, who fears local amenities across the city “are being swept up by developers with little regard for the community”.

“Canterbury is fast-changing into a place where the needs of residents are ignored,” the Labour member explained.

“I’m very concerned the city’s streetscape is changing. This must stop.”

Katrina Maclean, who runs the "New Inn" in Havelock Street, is still holding out hope of saving the historic tavern, which dates back to the 1880s.

Two Doves protesters 2022

New Inn landlady Katrina Maclean (left) and Labour councillor Connie Nolan (right). Picture: Nathan Eaton-Baudains.

Emails shared with KentOnline show the landlady lodged two offers - one for £350,000 two years ago and another of £400,000 in June - for the site, but they were unsuccessful.

Cllr Nolan believes the publican will be able to turn the alehouse into a successful venture.

“I met with several neighbours on Saturday who had been loyal regulars of the Two Doves and are hoping Ms Maclean will take it over,” she added.

“Ms Maclean has factored in the cost of restoring the bar and other fittings and intends to run it as a wet pub.

“Having two pubs will improve her economy of scale when purchasing beer and other supplies.”

Cllr Nolan says she visited the old pub last May, as a group she is a member of searched for locations to house a social club.

She claims the removal of the bar fittings inside prevented the organisation from putting a bid together as it “simply couldn’t afford a major renovation as well as the asking price”.

The pub has remained shut since 2019, the year LJW unveiled similar plans to turn it into two properties.

At the time, it was revealed the site’s trading loss of £740 in 2013 rose to more than £9,100 in 2017. Its tumbling earnings were blamed on its size and “inability to develop to provide a food offer”.

The city council refused the scheme, with marketing company Sibley Pares later putting the building on the market for £425,000.

 

From the https://www.kentonline.co.uk By Jack Dyson, 25 June 2022.

Victory for Canterbury campaigners as bid to turn the Two Doves pub into homes is snubbed.

Campaigners are claiming victory after controversial plans which would have seen a historic pub lost forever were refused.

Canterbury City Council has snubbed proposals to transform the old Two Doves site in Nunnery Fields into two houses, after receiving more than 100 objections to the scheme from disgruntled locals.

"New Inn" landlady Katrina Maclean has long hoped to snap up the boozer, having lodged two offers to take the building off owner LJW Developments’ hands.

And in the wake of the local authority’s decision, the publican says she is still interested in taking over the premises - which sold its last pint three years ago.

“The developer is convinced it’ll be far more profitable for the area to put up two houses, but I’m not - I see it as an important part of our history,” Ms Maclean said.

“Just because there are a few other little pubs in the area, doesn’t mean you don’t need a small, talking pub. This side of community life needs to be kept up.

“It’s the people who live there who spearheaded the campaign to keep the Two Doves - they wanted to keep it as theirs. Pubs closing is a disaster for communities in the long term.”

Katrina Maclean & Vonnie Nolan

New Inn landlady Katrina Maclean (left) and Labour councillor Connie Nolan (right) both campaigned to keep the pub. Picture: Nathan Eaton-Baudains.

Marketing company Sibley Pares put the old alehouse - thought to have been built in the 1800s - on the market for £425,000 last year.

In a report compiled by Sibley Pares as part of the planning application, it says no offers were received for the property in the 12 months it had been up for sale.

But KentOnline revealed earlier this year that emails showed Ms Maclean made two offers - one for £350,000 two years ago to the firm that originally marketed the site and one of £400,000 in June - for the pub.

And city council officials noted they had “concerns with respect to the marketing exercise”, as they refused the housing scheme last Friday.

“Representations made during the course of the public consultation suggest there was an interest in the site and an offer made,” they explained.

“Details of the offer have been sent through to substantiate the comments submitted.

“The marketing evidence provided fails to reference this offer, at odds with comments submitted during the consultation period of the application.

“It is considered the evidence provided fails to accurately and unambiguously demonstrate there is no need for a pub in this location, or the site could no longer be used for a community purpose.”

The authority also argued the development “would detract from the character and appearance”.

When asked about Ms Maclean’s offer last year, Sibley Pares said it had not met the asking price and that the firm’s requests for proof of funds or finance arrangements were not answered.

Without these, the company said it could not put the bid forward for consideration and, therefore, did not record it.

Responding to the city council’s verdict, Sibley Pares partner Phil Hubbard said: “Our client is obviously disappointed with the decision, especially as we are still not in receipt of a substantiated offer to purchase the property.

“The marketing evidence is not ‘inaccurate or ambiguous’ and our position remains as already advised to you with regards the ‘offer’, which has never been qualified despite our requests.”

 

LICENSEE LIST

COPPEN William 1882-1888+ Edward Wilmot Canterbury

COPPEN Edwin 1889-1902+ Edward Wilmot Canterbury

PERRY George 1904-11+ (age 61 in 1911Census) Edward Wilmot Canterbury

BLANCH J 1962+

Last pub licensee had BACHELOR Bernard "Mick" 1986-91

LESTER Christopher & Lydia 1991-96

 

Edward Wilmot CanterburyInns of Canterbury by Edward Wilmot, 1988

CensusCensus

 

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