From the Dover Express and East Kent News, Friday, 9 February, 1923. Price 1½d.
ANNUAL LICENSING MEETING
The annual licensing meeting of the Borough and Liberties of Dover was
held at the Dover Police Court on Monday, before Sir William Crundall
(in the chair), Alderman W, Bradley, Alderman J. W. Bussey, Alderman C.
J. Sellers, Dr. W. J. D. Best, Dr. C. Wood, Messrs. W. B. Brett, T.
Francis, S. Lewis, W. D. Atkins, A. Clark, T. A. Terson, C. E. Beaufoy,
W. Bromley, and W. J. Barnes.
CHIEF CONSTABLE REPORT
The report of the Chief Constable stated:- “ The whole of the houses
have been conducted without serious complaint, and there have been no
prosecutions during the year. 481 visits were made to licensed premises
by the Police during the year. 75 special orders of exemption under
Section 57 of the Licensing Act, 1910, have been granted to licensed
premises (including seven clubs) during the year, and 17 occasional
licenses have also been granted by the Justices. 33 fully licensed
premises and two beer houses have changed hands during the year. The
renewal of the licence of the “Endeavour” public house, Bulwark Street,
was not applied for at the last Annual Licensing Sessions. There are in
this Borough:- Fully licensed houses, 142; “on” and “off” beer houses,
5; “off” beer houses, 10; shops, 11; confectioners, 3; total 171.
Drunkenness:- 1920, males 18, females 3, total 21; 1921, males 14,
females 6, total 20; 1922, males 20, females 6, total 26. Of those
proceeded against for drunkenness 14 were residents, 6 non-residents,
and 6 soldiers. Population, Census 1921, 39,985. Population to each
licensed house, 235.85 (A deduction of licensed houses closed brings the
number of licensed premises down to 162, which makes the average
population to each licensed house, 246.82.) Drunkenness per 1,000
population , 0.65. The “Two Brewers” public house, Limekiln Street, has
been closed since the 31st of March last, and I have reason to believe
that the renewal of this licence will not be applied for. No houses have
been sent from this Borough for compensation since 1916, and if the
Magistrates decide to send any this year I respectfully suggest that the
following be sent – The “Marquis of Waterford,” Union Row, rateable
value, gross £30, net £24; The “Providence,” Trevanion Street, rateable
value, gross £32, net £26.
The Chairman: I consider that a very satisfactory report.
The existing licenses were renewed with the exception of the “Marquis of
Waterford” and the “Providence.”
A LATE CORPORATION APPLICATION
Mr. Taylor for the Corporation, applied for an extension of the music,
singing and dancing licence for Sundays. The present hours were from 3
to 5 p.m., and he asked that the hours should be extended from 2 to 10
p.m., in order that military bands could play then.
The Chairman: That is granted.
Mr. Frazer, solicitor to the South Eastern and Chatham Railway Company,
applied for a certificate fixing the rate to be charged for the Harbour
and the Marine Stations refreshment rooms at one third of the full rate.
The Chairman: The Harbour Station licence is not carried on.
Mr. Frazer: It is still there.
The Chairman: You might ask your Board to help us with a refreshment
room at the Police Station.
Mr. Frazer: I may say that, in response to an application, it is under
Mr. R. Mowll made similar applications in respect of the “Lord Warden
Hotel,” Messrs. Igglesden and Graves, Mr. Mangillis, the Admiralty Pier
and the Prince of Wales Pier refreshment bars.
All the applications were granted.
Mr. Thorn Drury appeared on behalf of the licensed victuallers in
Broadstairs, Birchington and Westgate in regard to the fixing of the
permitted hours of opening. He appeared in the place of Mr. Shea, who
had been called away in connection with a serious and very sad family
bereavement. His application was for an extra half hour after ten p.m. A
precisely similar application was made last year, and granted subject to
revision in October. The Police did not oppose the extension, and he
asked the Bench to grant the order as last year, and not to stultify the
decision they came to then. He had two licensees from Broadstairs, if
the bench would like to hear them.
The Chairman: I do not think we require to, hear your witnesses. In case
anyone would like to say anything here is the opportunity.
Lieut Groves, R.N., said that he had been asked by the Dover Temperance
Council to speak relative to child life generally in regard to retaining
the extra half hour. He supposed that representing 3,000 children – the
only organised child expression – his words ought to have a certain
amount of weight. He would like to bring certain facts before the Bench.
It was pretty patent that their friends, the brewing industry, were
there to represent themselves and the sale of their commodity, and
thereby to increase their money. As representing the organised children,
in regard to that particular question he was not there to get any money
out of it, but for the good of the community.
The Chairman: I suppose you get some salary, do you not? (Laughter).
Lieut Groves said that he was only a poor man, although he would like to
serve the nation for nothing.
Mr. Brett said that he was rather in the dark. He did not know the
gentlemen who was speaking. Might he be told?
Lieut. Groves: I shall be delighted to do so. I am Lieut. Groves, R.N. I
come here as a Dover citizen, requested by the Dover Temperance Council
to represent them.
The Chairman: We shall be very glad if you cut it as short as you can. I
have an appointment.
Lieut. Groves: I have to get back to work, too. He then went on to quote
statistics from various reports, and said that on one particular night,
121 public houses were visited in London between 9.30 and 11 p.m., and
239 perambulators were seen outside (cries of “Oh! Oh!” from the back of
the Court, and “Silence!”) At Blackheath 900 teachers petitioned the
Magistrates to close the house at 10 o’clock.
The Chairman: What has Blackheath to do with us? (“hear, hear, sir,”
from the back of the Court.)
Lieut. Groves: A great deal, sir. They pointed out the decreasing effect
of those late hours on children, and what applied there applies here.
Having given further instances from London, he quoted from the “Daily
Express” a list of the profits being made by the brewers. Yet, he said,
the licensees came there for more money. He thought they were mighty
greedy, and he asked the Bench to consider the welfare of the children
before the “bloated dividends of the Trade.”
Mr. Brett said he did not give way to the speaker in respect to looking
after the children of Dover, and he did not think the word “only” should
have been used. He might represent a certain portion, but there were
other gentlemen who had the welfare of the children at heart (hear,
Lieut. Groves said that he had been misunderstood. He meant the only
organised body of children in reference to the drink Trade.
The Rev. Walter Holyoak said that the Dover Moral Welfare Association
had asked him to say that they were heartily in support of the proposal
that the hour of closing in the evening should continue at the present
ten o’clock. Further, he represented the Dover Free Church Council, and
had also been asked to place before the Justices a memorial signed by
clergymen, ministers, and others in the Broadstairs and St. Peter’s
district, asking that there should be no extension of hours. They
understood the Act of 1921 fixed the closing hour at 10 p.m., unless
there were special circumstances in particular areas where extension was
considered to be in the public interest. They contended that there were
no special circumstances, and the public would be best served by keeping
it as at present (hear, hear). Statistics went to show that it was best
served by the hour of closing in the evening being brought down as low
as possible, and he asked on behalf of those he represented, that they
would continue the present arrangements and close at ten o’clock (hear,
hear, and stamping of feet in the gallery).
Canon Elnor said he represented nobody but himself, but he wanted to
say, in case any members of the Bench had not already made up their
minds, that if he could influence them he would ask them to vote against
any extension of hours. A great number of them were so convinced that
the restriction upon the hours of opening during the war was beneficial
to all concerned that they very much hoped that no further extension
would now be made.
Mr. Mowll said that he represented thee licensed victuallers of Dover,
who were part of the same jurisdiction as the Liberties, and whatever
order was made must apply both to Dover and the Liberties. His friend,
Mr. Thorn Drury, had dealt with the matter in regard to the Liberties,
and all he wanted to say was that the statistics which were more of a
guide than a census of perambulators was the condition of things in one
town. The Chief Constable’s report stated that the public houses had
been conducted without serious complaint, and no prosecutions had taken
place, which, he thought was a record. For half a year this very order
which was going to have such an effect on the moral welfare of everyone
was in force. The number of cases of drunkenness amongst residence was
only 11, which spoke for itself.
The Bench retired at this point, there being no other representations.
The Chairman, on return, said that the Magistrates had come to the
conclusion that they would grant the extra half-hour for the rest of the
year, subject to review on October 5th next (applause from the gallery,
which was subdued by the Police with cries of “Silence!”).
It was decided that the change should take effect on Monday next.
Mr. R. Mowll appeared for the licensees of the two public houses
recommended by the Chief Constable in his report.
Chief Constable Green said that the “Marquis of Waterford,” Union Road,
was fully licensed, and the present tenant was Mr. John William Marsh,
it bring transferred to him on January 12th. There had been three
changes in three years. There were 8 houses within 140yds. He considered
the house redundant. It was practically a new house, but previously the
“Greyhound” and the “Marquis of Anglesey” had been recommended by the
Police, but were not sent forward.
Chief Inspector Mount said that he visited the house, with Detective
Sergt. Greenland, on several occasions on January 19th at 7 p.m.,
January 22nd at 12.20 p.m. January 27th at 11.30 a.m., January 30th at
10.40 a.m., and February 3rd at 1.05 p.m., when there were no customers.
On January 25th at 5.25 p.m. there were three customers, and on February
2nd at 9.05 p.m. there were six customers making nine customers for
In the case of the “Providence,” Trevanion Street, the Chief Constable
said that it was a fully licensed house, and the present tenant (Mr.
Harry Links) had been there since December 6th, 1912. There had been
four changes in fifteen years. In the neighbourhood there were the “Star
and Garter,” Trevanion Street (36yds.), the “Mail Packet,” Woolcomber
Street (106yds.), and the “White Horse,” St. James’s Street (160yds).
The latter two houses belonged to the same owners, Messrs. George Beer,
Rigden and Co.
Do you not think it is hard on a man who has been spending his own money
on the house to refer his house?
I suppose he will get compensation if he is a good tenant, and the
brewers will find him another house. I know he has been suffering from
Chief Inspector Mount said that the results of his visits, with
Detective Sergt. Greenland, were:- January 19th, at 7.15 p.m., two
customers; January 22nd at 12.30 p.m., two customers; January 25th at
8.40 p.m., seven customers; January 27th at 11.05 a.m., no customers;
January 30th at 11.20 a.m., no customers; February 2nd at 8 p.m., eight
customers; and February 3rd at 1.30 p.m., four customers.
Detective Sergt. Greenland corroborated.
Mr. Mowll addressed the Bench, and said that the real principle of
redundancy was to take the public house least required. The “Marquis of
Waterford” was a good house recently rebuilt; and in regard to the
other, Mr. Links’ customers wanted the Bench to know their views on the
matter. Fifty-five had signed a petition, which he handed in. Mr. Links
had been there ten years, and during that time had spent money on the
house himself. Compensation had been referred to, but that was quite
small, even when dealing with generous brewers, as in this case. With
regard to the visits, he thought it would have been possible to have
made these at times that would show a very different return.
The Chairman said that the Magistrates had decided that both houses
should be referred to Canterbury.
The meeting was adjourned to the Pierremont Hall, Broadstairs, on
February 21st, at 3 p.m., for renewing licenses, and to the Town Hall,
Dover, on March 5th, at 11 a.m., for the purpose of hearing applications
for new licenses.
From the Dover Express and East Kent News, Friday, 12 October, 1923. Price 1½d.
QUARTERLY LICENSING MEETING
The quarterly licensing meeting was held at the Dover Police Court on
Friday last week before the Mayor (Alderman Lewis W. G. Lewis), Sir
William Crundall, Alderman Chitty, Bradley and Bussey; Dr. Best and Dr.
Wood; Messrs. S. Lewis, W. B. Brett, A. Clark, T. A. Terson, W. J.
Barnes, W. J. Palmer, C. E. Beaufoy and T. Francis.
The first business was the fixing of the hour for closing licensed
premises at night, the Justices in fixing the hour at 10.30 at the
Brewster Sessions, decided that it should be reviewed in Court.
There was a large attendance of the public, including licensed
victuallers and temperance advocates.
The Rev. Walter Holyoak, who represented the Dover Free Church Council,
said that for some reason he regretted being present. He had some
apprehension that they might be bored and some apprehension that he
might seem unfriendly to the gentlemen connected with the liquor trade,
at the hands of some whom he had received very courteous treatment. He
was not appearing with any feelings of enmity or hostility to brewers or
publicans as men or neighbours. The Act of 1921 fixed the closing hour
at 10 p.m. unless there were special circumstances in a particular
district which, in the public interest, warranted a later time. He
wished particularly to emphasise “in the public interest.” It would be
within the recollection of the Magistrates that in October, 1922, they
decided that the closing hour should be at 10 p.m., but in May they
decided that 10.30 was better “in the public interest.” Amongst the
arguments urged was the desire for uniformity in the closing hour in the
Isle of Thanet, Margate’s closing hour being 10.30; but he would like to
mention that at Ramsgate the hour was 10 o’clock. Summer time was also
urged, but that was no longer relevant for the next six months. They had
also a plea on behalf of the belated motorist, but he submitted that, in
view of the many accidents happening in recent months, it was up to them
to see that those who drove motors were as temperate as was consistent
with public safety. There was the argument of the men returning from
work on late shift, but surely it was better for such men to go straight
home to the meal prepared for them than to delay their return. Then they
were told of those coming from the pictures who must secure some
refreshment. They heard much in these days about racial degeneration,
but he refused to believe that we Britishers had become such feeble folk
that in order to reach home people must turn in for some refreshment,
especially when supper was waiting at home. They were also told of the
publican who was suffering from bad times, but they were not the only
class so suffering; and amongst their patrons there might be those who
were suffering still more, and in whose interest it was desirable that
they should go home without expending more money. They were told that
the figure for drunkenness worked out at 0.65 per thousand, but in this
was included children; and for every man arrested there were probably
twelve others who, in spite of the vigilance of the Police, escape
arrest. However low the figure could be brought for any area, to have in
its midst a number of drunken persons was a shame. He suggested that the
extra half hour was the dangerous period and men who had been drinking
long, in between conversation, of course, and perhaps a game of darts,
were likely to drink more than was in their own interest or that of
their homes. He appealed for the question to be settled not in the
interest of one particular section, but in the public interest; and he
hoped that the Magistrates would decide on 10 o’clock instead of 10.30.
The Mayor: Do you suggest that in that half hour there had been an
increase of drunkenness?
The Rev. W. Holyoak: I cannot suggest it as I have no figures, but it
would be in line with what has occurred elsewhere.
The mayor; I do not think so in Dover. It was only on Tuesday I was
congratulating the Police on the absence of crime, considering the
influx of visitors – more than we ever have had.
The Rev. W. Holyoak said that it was not for him to argue, but he
submitted that there had been throughout the country a general decline
in drunkenness, but great but a gratifying one, but surely there must be
more drink consumed if the hours were longer, or why would the publicans
desire that their houses be kept open?
The mayor said that he did not wish to argue, but there was the argument
about men going home to their supper. Many men after getting home from
work went out for half an hour’s diversion.
The Rev. W. Holyoak said he thanked the bench for their courteous
hearing, and if it was not irrelevant, he would like to congratulate the
Mayor on his improved health.
Mr. Hyne said he represented the local branch of the Fellowship of
Freedom and Reform, which had 203 members, so that he could be said to
speak for at least a sample of the public generally. Legislature had
decided that the matter of the extra half an hour was a matter to be
decided in reference to the convenience of those who used public houses.
The gentleman who had just spoken said that in that half hour the danger
lay, but nearly everyone who came before the Magistrates seeking
restrictions of the facilities were those who did not use these things,
but to allow such principles to apply in our ordinary social life he
thought was most undesirable. For instance, he himself did not go to
places of entertainment. Was he to be the judge of whether they should
close at a certain hour? In regard to the men on night shift who had
been referred to, they knew that the food that awaited them, especially
in the poorer families, was not always what they desired; and he asked
the Bench to remember that these victualling houses were intended to be
where people could get something in the way of food. He thought that the
only matter that the Bench had to consider was whether the convenience
had been abused, and the Police records showed it had not. He referred
to the fact that many Buffalo lodges met on licensed premises and could
not get through their business by ten, whilst he did not suggest that
they could not continue after the permitted hour, yet he submitted it
would be as well for administrative purposes that the hours in which the
lodges met and the closing hour should co-inside as far as possible.
Mr. R. Mowll, on behalf of the Licensed Victuallers, raised the legal
point, of which he had given notice to the Magistrates’ Clerk, whether
they had any right to consider the matter at transfer sessions. The
order was made at the general annual licensing meeting, and under the
rules laid down it appeared to be very doubtful if that order could be
altered at a transfer sessions. He had nothing else to say except to ask
if any disadvantage had been caused to the public by the extra half
hour. That it had been wanted had been shown by the fact that the houses
had been used. If the Bench felt that they were enabled to deal with the
matter that day, he asked that it should be to give a decision that the
licensed victuallers, having conducted their houses so satisfactorily
until 10.30, should be allowed to continue to cater for the public till
the same hour.
The Magistrates retired, and on returning (some did not take their seats
again) the Mayor said: “The Bench have seriously considered the matter
and there is no alteration.”