DOVER KENT ARCHIVES

Sort file:- Chatham, September, 2024.

Page Updated:- Sunday, 08 September, 2024.

PUB LIST PUBLIC HOUSES Paul Skelton

Earliest 1781-

Crown and Thistle

Latest 1872-

(Name to)

188 High Street

Chatham

 

I have also seen this mentioned as the "Thistle and Crown."

Up to and including 1874 the address was given as number 282, the street must have been renumbered by the 1891 census.

 

This was owned by Edward Winch in 1880 when the licensee was Ann Tonkin although by that time the mane should have been the "United Services."

The pub is said to have changed name to the "United Services" between 1880 and 1890 but I do have reference from the Licensing Records of 1872 that says it was called the "United Services" then, unless this was a different pub withy the same name. Unfortunately the records give no address.

 

Kentish Gazette, 16 June, 1781.

To be Let, and entered upon immediately,

A good accustomed Public House, well situated, opposite the Block, in Pump Makers Yard, Strood, known by the name of the "George," lately rebuilt.

For particulars enquire of John Tribe, the "Crown and Thistle," Chatham.

 

Canterbury Weekly, 28 August, 1837.

Suspected Murder.

On Thursday week, a Coroner's inquest was held at the "Crown and Thistle," High Street, Chatham, before are R. Hinde, Esq., coroner, touching the death of a man named Barney McAnns, late of the 17th Regiment.

The case excited the greatest interest, owing to the reports circulated throughout the town that the man had been poisoned by a woman. Long before the coroner had arrived, the house was literally besieged by person's, anxious to hear the enquiry. About 11:30 the jury were empanelled; and the first witness called was the landlord of the house.

Mr. Richard Gould:- He said the deceased came into his house, accompanied by a woman, about half past 11 o'clock, on the morning of yesterday. When he saw the deceased first he was lying on the wooden seat in the back room, at his full length, vomiting. He imagined he was tipsy, and wished him to go out of doors. The deceased refused. Before he saw the deceased, he saw a woman come out of the room and go out of the back door. He had seen her before; but did not know her name. He eventually forced the deceased out, and placed him at the back door, and thought, by his remaining there, he might recover. The landlord them remonstrated with his wife for serving the deceased, as he thought he was in liquor. She answered that the man did not appear intoxicated, and that all she had served in with was a pint of ale.

The young woman, who had been with the deceased shortly came back, and said the man was not drunk, but unwell. She then left the house; and the deceased said he had drink nothing, but admitted he had taken poison. He still thought the deceased was intoxicated; and led him to the upper part of the stable. On his return to the house, he found a warehouseman of Mr Young's; who said he had found a label marked poison, lying on the floor. Several medical men were then searched after; but none could be found, accept a Mr. Powell; but before Mr. Powell could arrive the man was dead. A peace officer of the name of Croft arrived; who, hearing what had happened, took the girl into custody. She was searched but nothing was found upon her person.

Mrs. Jane Gould, wife of the landlord, corroborated the testimony on her husband.

Sergeant John Brady of the 17th Regiment of Foot stationed at Chatham, deposed that the deceased was a private soldier in the regiments, and was discharged three months ago. He was a sober man.

Elizabeth Hooker, the woman the deceased was in company with, said - I have known the deceased three months. About 8 o'clock on the morning of yesterday we had a glass of whiskey and water each at the "Queen's Head." I saw him again between the hours of ten and eleven, near the Military Road. he said he was going down to Chatham to get his breakfast. I said I was going to the fruiterer's to buy some currents. The deceased said he was going to buy some salts and hoped she would not be long. I saw the deceased again, and he asked me to go and take ale, which I agreed to; and we both came to the "Crown and Thistle." We went into the back room, and the deceased ordered one pint of ale. In conversation he asked me to go to Canterbury with him. I said I would not. He then wanted me to go part of the way with him; which I agree to do, and was going to write a note to send up to the "Queen's Head," for a bonnet and shawl. The note was not written because the deceased would not let me write, unless I would consent to stay with him. He then said he would take his salts, and would go over and take a cup of tea. He took from his pocket a small parcel of white paper, and emptied it into a part of a glass of ale, stirred it up, and drank it. The salts had not all dissolved, and I said you have drank the liquor and left the salts. He answered he had left them for me. He then put half a glass of ale into it, and put it to me to drink. I said I did not want physic, and would not take it. He then said if I did not, he would throw it over me or put it down my throat. He then took me by the nose, and put it to my mouth. I tasted it and said "Barney, it is sour." He then got up and threw the contents behind the fire place; and said that what he had taken was to sober himself, as he was going to see a gentleman concerning some spoons. Immediately he was taken sick and Mr. Gould then came into the room. I left the house frightened and went to the "Queen's Head." I was fetched back to the "Crown and Thistle," and went to the stable, and found he was dead. I knew him and kissed his forehead. The deceased was a passionate man, but not subject to drink. The morning in question he was more pleasing and quiet.

George William's Dadd acknowledged serving a person answering the deceased with one ounce of of oxalic acid about 10 o'clock yesterday. He said he wanted to clean some boot tops. The rapper was stamped poison on it.

The jury, after sometime, returned the verdict that the deceased destroyed himself by taking oxalic acid, but whether the deceased was in his sound and proper sense at the time, no satisfactory evidence appeared to the jurors.

 

From the Kentish Gazette 20 November 1838.

THE LATE MILITARY OUTRAGE AT CHATHAM — DEATH OF ANOTHER MARINE.

Since the former holding of the inquest another marine has fallen a victim to the ferocity of the assailants, and four others, named Ball, Jones, Lees, and Sheldrake, but particularly the two latter, still continue in a very bad state, although by the attention and exertion of the medical officers of the staff they are likely ultimately to recover. On Sunday week, about nine o’clock, Charles Jeffcott, another marine, breathed his last at the Melville Military Hospital, having sunk under the effects of extensive and violent erysipelas, arising from the injuries he received in the fatal attack. Eleven men are now in custody on the charge of being concerned in the outrage; three of them belong to the 74th regiment — namely, Joshua Sykes, Robert Farrell, and Robert Johnman; and the remaining eight belong to the 74th regiment — John Callaghan, Morris Lyons, Dennis Doyle, John Connell, John Noonan, Timothy Lawler, Bartholomew Brasner, and John Ninan. The following is a correct list of those dead and at present in the hospital:— Robert Ross, aged 31, dead; Charles Jeffcott, aged 24, dead; Robert Lees, 21, wounded severely; Thomas Sheldrake, aged 36, very severely; William Jones, 25, slightly; and George Ball, aged 20, slightly.

ADJOURNED INQUEST ON THE BODY OF JOHN ROSS.

On Monday, soon after ten o’clock, the prisoners were marched under a strong escort from the garrison barracks to the Melville Hospital, where the coroner, Richard Hinde, Esq. and the jury re-assembled.

The panel having been called over, the following evidence was adduced:— Josiah Power, a private of the royal marines, examined — I was in the tap-room of the "Old Barn" public-house on the evening of Saturday, the 27th ult., and heard John Callaghan, now present, say that he would "split the marines' skulls" that night. I and John Leeks went to the "Navy Arms." Nothing had previously passed between us and Callaghan’s party. The deceased (Robert Ross), James Barrett, Robert Grisnell, and another marine, who had his head cut, and is at present in the hospital, were playing at cards at a table and were drinking beer. In about 20 minutes a party of soldiers came in, consisting of 16 or 17. They were all armed with sticks, and they commenced striking the tables with them. The soldiers began dancing and swearing loudly. I got over the screen and made my escape. As I was doing so one of the soldiers struck at me and the blow fell upon my heel. The soldiers surrounded the marines, and struck at them indiscriminately, and I saw Callaghan strike the deceased (Ross) with the thick end of a clothes prop over the head. Rose fell, and I saw Callaghan then strike at him a second time. The second blow that was intended for Ross, hit the marine next to him. The first blow knocked Ross’s forage cap off, and I saw the blood fly from his head on to the table. I did not see any other person but Callaghan strike Ross. On the soldiers leaving the house, Leeks and myself got a bucket of water and washed Ross’s head, and cut his hair off from about the wound. We then tied a handkerchief round his head, and he was led to the hospital, while I and Leeks wiped up the blood that was standing in a pool a on the floor. [The witness was here desired to look particularly at the prisoners, and point out those that he saw there, he again pointed out Callaghan, and added that he saw most of the others there, but he could not identify them separately with certainty. The jury then directed the witness to go and see if he could identify the body of Ross, which was lying with that of Jeffcott in the dead house adjoining Melville Hospital. On his return he said the wound which was apparent on the head of Ross, was the same he saw inflicted by Callaghan.]

Cross-examined by Callaghan — I am positive the blow I have just seen upon Ross’s head was given by you.

Cross-examined by Brasner — I saw you at the "Navy Arms," as well as at the "Old Barn." You had a stick in your hand at both the houses.

By the Coroner — At the time Callaghan struck Ross he held the stick in both his hands, and wielded it with great force over his right shoulder.

The evidence of this witness differs as to the identity of the soldier who gave Ross the fatal blow, from the witnesses on the previous holding of the inquiry — all the witnesses examined on Saturday having sworn to the prisoner Connell, and not Callaghan.]

Robert Grisnell, another marine, gave a similar account of the attack as the preceding witness, and added that Ross remarked to the soldiers that they (the marines) wished to be quiet and not interfered with. Serjeant Rose soon after came in, and paid for a pot of beer, and gave to the soldiers, and endeavoured to prevail upon them to be quiet. The soldiers soon after got round the Serjeant, and witness heard some of the soldiers say, "Don’t strike him (meaning the serjeant; for he’s a good fellow." Morris Lyons it was that struck at Ross, and witness did not see any other person strike him then. Lyons struck Ross on the side of the head. The blow did not appear to have much effect upon him at first. Witness saw Lawler strike Farrer, a marine, as he was running out of the passage; and afterwards he saw Ross in the act of falling, as if he had received another blow.

William Rose, serjeant of the marines, said — On the evening of the 27th ultimo, upon my coming out of the "Crown and Thistle" public-house, at Chatham, I was told that there was "dreadful goings on at the "Navy Arms," and that they were killing the marines." I went there, and saw 18 or 20 soldiers, whom I treated with a pot of porter, and requested them to sit down or go home quietly to their barracks. The greater part of them were armed with bludgeons. They were endeavouring to raise a disturbance, and one of them seized hold of me and very cordially kissed me. They said they did not want to hurt me, but it was the "----- privates." I used all the means in my power to get them away or to restore order, but finding that all my efforts were ineffectual, I left the house for the purpose of getting a picquet, but my intentions were frustrated by a peace-officer calling upon me to aid, and assist in keeping the peace.

Captain Burton, of the royal marines, in the course of the day, complained to the reporter of the serious misrepresentation that had gone forth that the infuriated soldiers were accompanied by a serjeant of marines, and from which it would be inferred that he took part against the marines, whereas the fact was, that he went to the "Navy Arms" to try to restore order. The mis-statement has created considerable discussion in the military circles.

Henry King, a corporal of the royal marines, stated that he was at the "Navy Arms," and saw a soldier, whom he had not been able since to identify, come in with a stick in his hand, and threatened to break some of the marines’ skulls.

Robert Lees, one of the marines who was bludgeoned, and who is an inmate of Melville Hospital, was next called:— He appeared to be in a very weak and reduced state; he received a blow upon the shoulder, and was afterwards knocked down by one upon the head inflicted by Lawler. Immediately before that he saw Morris Lyons standing before the deceased Ross with a stick in his hand.

David Harris, a private of the royal sappers and miners, identified the prisoner, John Connell, as the soldier who struck the deceased; he also remembered seeing Farrell and Sykest striking at some of the marines in the passage.

George Howard, a constable of Chatham, stated that his attention was drawn to the "Navy Arms," on the 27th ult., by a party of soldiers armed with sticks running out of the house.

James Thomas Collins, porter at the Medway Union House, deposed to seeing Connell strike the deceased Ross, and to Ninan and Lawler being present at the time.

Dr. William Rae, head surgeon of Melville Hospital, stated that the deceased Robert Ross, had a contused wound an inch and a half in length, and a quarter of an inch in depth, extending over the paretal bone, on the right side of the head. He died on the sixth instant, about half-past five in the morning, erysipelas having taken place on the 30th ult., which extended from the wound over the face, head, neck, and upper parts of the breast and shoulders, and which continued to extend until his death took place. Witness had since made a post-mortem examination, and found that the body was generally healthy. Witness was of opinion that the deceased died from the wound on the head and the erysipelas extending over the head and body. It was such a wound as could have been indicted with a blunt instrument, such as a large stick or poker.

At half-past five o'clock the inquiry was adjourned until half-past 10 o'clock of Tuesday.

The prisoners were re-conducted to the guard-room under a strong escort.

TUESDAY. INQUEST RESUMED ON THE BODY OF ROSS

It has been the subject of observation that no person has been in attendance either from the Admiralty or the War-office to watch these proceedings.

Arthur Kift, the assistant surgeon of Melville Hospital, deposed that he saw the deceased between nine and ten o’clock on the night of the 27th ult. The wound was an inch and a half long, and of considerable depth. Two arteries were bleeding, which he secured by a ligature, and the bleedings soon after ceased. The bone was exposed by about half an inch, and after the wound was dressed the deceased was sent to bed.

Johannah Haddington was recalled, and being desired by the Coroner to look at all the prisoners she had not seen during her examination on Wednesday, she immediately pointed out three, named Johnman, Farrell, and Sykes, belonging to the 74th regiment, and who were not in custody when she gave her evidence on Wednesday. The prisoner Sykes had a thick stick in his hand, and he told Corporal King, who was present, that he wanted the stick to pound the ----- marines with. Sykes made use of these words while he was standing before the fireplace. Witness could not distinctly state whether Farrell was in uniform or undress.

The Coroner then desired the prisoners, eleven in number, to stand forward, and upon their doing so he explained to them that the present was only a preliminary inquiry. They were not upon their trial, but having heard all the evidence against them, they might, if they thought proper, make any statement that would explain any portion of the evidence, or bring forward witnesses on their behalf; at the same time it was his duty to caution them against adopting any course that would be prejudicial to them, as they were implicated in a very serious charge.

The prisoner Johnman then called John Shaw, who stated that Johnman was in the barracks with witness and another private of the 74th, playing at cards, from half-past five o’clock until a quarter before eight o'clock on the evening of the 27th ult. When the quarter-drum beat witness went to make his bed, and Johnman pulled off his jacket and proceeded to his own room.

By the Coroner:— While the quarter-drum was beating the prisoner have got out of the barracks.

Examination resumed:— There is a private of the 74th regiment named M'Gregor, about the same height and very much like Johnman.

By the Jury:— The soldiers were not allowed to play at cards in the barracks, but they got the corporal out of the room, and during his absence they had two or three games.

William Morris, a private of the 74th regiment, stated that he was in the barracks on the 27th ult., with Shaw and Johnman, who played with five or six others at cards. The prisoner Johnman slept in the same room with witness, and upon the quarter-drum beating Johnman went to his bed.

John Noonan, requested Mr. Budden, the landlord of the "Red Lion," to be sent for.

His son, William Budden, shortly afterwards entered the jury-room, and Nooman put a number of questions to him. The witness’s evidence did not materially benefit the prisoner, as he had no recollection of Noonan’s person, although he remembered some observations passing between himself and some soldiers, which Noonan repeated.

Noonan expressed a wish that Bines, the summoning officer, should be examined.

Bines was then sworn, but his testimony merely went to prove that he saw the prisoner in the "Red Lion," at twenty minutes after ten o’clock on Saturday evening, the 27th ult., about two hours and a half after the fatal attack.

The Coroner inquired if any of the other prisoners had any witnesses in attendance, and was answered in the negative. The learned gentleman next asked if the prisoners had a desire to add anything in their defence, and they all declined saying anything with the exception of Michael Farrell, who protested that he was quite innocent of what had been laid to his charge.

This concluding the case as far as regarded the deceased Robert Ross, the jury retired for a few minutes to take some refreshment.

Upon their return at three o'clock, the coroner commenced summing up. He remarked, that as there was a great mass of evidence which in some measure was contradictory, it would be necessary for him to go through the whole of it. The coroner then read the statements of the several witnesses who had been examined, which occupied a considerable time, and at the conclusion added, that the jury should calmly and deliberately weigh the evidence, and from that alone draw their conclusions. With regard to the offence that had been committed, it was one of a very serious and alarming character, if it was considered only in the light of an assault. But where a person struck a blow in this case, and that blow produced death, he had no hesitation in saying that that party was guilty of manslaughter. As to the idea of murder, the law on that head he did not think applied at all to this case. They would attentively weigh the evidence which had been adduced respecting the death of the unfortunate man, and also that which had been brought forward by some of the prisoners, and if the jury felt that there were any mitigatory circumstances, they would give the parties to whom they applied the benefit of them. They would first have to consider who was the principal in the first degree guilty of this offence, and secondly, who were the principals in the second degree, present, aiding, and abetting. The coroner then read the law applying to cases of this description, and concluded by observing that the jury should take care und return such a verdict as would satisfy the public mind, while at the same time it did justice to all parties.

After an absence of one hour and thirty-five minutes the jury returned into the inquest-room, and the foreman (addressing the coroner) said:— The jury have come to an unanimous verdict of Wilful Murder against John Callaghan, Morris Lyons, and John Connell (of the 67th), as principals; and against Joshua Sykes, Robert Farrell, and Robert Johnman (of the 74th), Dennis Doyle, Timothy Lawler, Bartholomew Brasner, and John Ninan (of the 67th), as aiders and abettors.

The remaining man, John Noonon (of the 67th), was the only man out of the eleven prisoners not included in the verdict.

The coroner then bound over the witnesses to attend and give evidence at the spring assizes against the prisoners, and made out their committals to Maidstone gaol, but it was believed that they would not be removed thither until after the inquest had sat upon the body of the other marine, named Jeffcott.

The proceedings did not terminate until six o’clock at night.

Inquest on Jeffcott.

An inquest was held, on Friday, on the body of Jeffcott, the second marine whose death is alleged to have been occasioned by the ill usage of certain soldiers. The evidence was in substance the same as that adduced in the former case, although the only soldier whom the witnesses attempted to identify was Joshua Sykes. The coroner, in summing up, remarked that he was of opinion that if the soldiers had meditated murder, they would have been differently armed; and he did not see that the jury should return a verdict to that effect. The evidence did not actually fix the guilt on any particular individual; but it was for them to decide how far the prisoner Sykes was guilty, and of what crime. The jury, after an absence of about half an hour, found a verdict of Wilful Murder against all the soldiers present in the disturbance on the night of the 27th of October, whose names are at present unknown to the jury, and that Joshua Sykes was present aiding and abetting.

 

South Eastern Gazette, 26 June, 1860.

Friday. (Before the Revs. G. Davies and J. J. Marsham).

James Hill, a private in the 20th Regt., and Thomas Davis, of the 23rd Royal Welsh Fusiliers, were finally examined on a charge of highway robbery, accompanied with violence, on the person of John Wells, lately discharged from the 60th Rifles, at Chatham.

It appeared that the prosecutor was drinking with the prisoners, neither of whom had he seen before, at the "Royal Oak," High-street, at which time he had five sovereigns and some silver in his possession fastened in a belt which he wore round his waist. During the time they were drinking together in the tap-room of the "Royal Oak," one of the prisoners was observed by a girl there to empty a white powder from a paper into a pot or beer which prosecutor was drinking. They afterwards all left the "Royal Oak" and proceeded together to the "Gibraltar" public-house, but returned over the New-road towards the "Royal Oak," when as they were passing along by some railings Davies suddenly asked prosecutor to give him some money. The prosecutor said he would, and was about to take 6d. out of his belt, when the prisoner Hills struck him a violent blow in the face, and at the same moment the other prisoner snatched his belt out of his hand, and both ran away as fast as they could in the direction of Rome-lane. In a very short time after the robbery both prisoners ran into the "Crown and Thistle" public-house, High-street, and made their way upstairs into a bed-room, where they exhibited several sovereigns to a female living there. At that moment the police entered the house, when both prisoners secreted themselves under the bed, but were taken by Police-constable 108, who conveyed them both to the station-house, where no money was found on either of them. The officer, however, returned to the room in which he had apprehended the prisoners, and under the bed where Hills had crawled he found two sovereigns and an Indian coin which the prisoner said was his.

Mr. Davies asked what had become of the other sovereigns, as only two had been found.

Superintendent Everist said he had no doubt the prisoners had swallowed them.

The prisoners were committed for trial.

 

South Eastern Gazette, 31 July, 1860.

INSOLVENT DEBTORS to be heard at the Sessions House, Maidstone, before the Judge of the County Court of Kent, on Tuesday, the Fourteenth day of August, 1860, at Eleven o'clock in the forenoon precisely.

OBADIAH WHITE, formerly of the "Crown and Thistle," High-street, Chatham, Kent, licensed victualler and dealer in tobacco; then lodging at the "Druids Arms Inn," Blue Town, Sheerness, Kent, out of business; and then and late of the "Ship Inn," Queenborough, Kent, licensed victualler and dealer in tobacco.

CHARLES MORGAN,

Insolvents’ Attorney, Maidstone.

 

South Eastern Gazette, 11 September, 1860.

COUNTY PETTY SESSIONS.

Friday. (Before the Rev. G. Davies, W. H. Nicholson and T. H. Day, Esqrs.)

An old pensioner named James Benny, of 4, Queen’s-court, Brompton, was charged with stealing a carpet-bag, containing a quantity of wearing apparel, from the "Crown and Thistle" public-house, High-street, Chatham.

Robert De Melvin, a military look man, said he was stopping at the public-house with his little girl, eight years old, and having occasion to go out for a short time he left his carpet-bag behind in the smoking-room, in charge of the child, the prisoner being also there. On returning in a short time afterwards he found that his bag had been stolen, and his little girl was unable to give any account of it. Since the prisoner had been apprehended he had expressed to prosecutor his regret that he had taken the bag.

P.C. Shonk, 46, K.C.C., said he traced the prisoner to Queen’s-court, Brompton, and met him coming out with the bag in his hand; it was still locked and had not been opened. As the officer was going into the house he heard the prisoner say to some one that he was sorry he had taken the bag, and would give it back to the owner. Prisoner also told witness he would have given back the bag to the prosecutor, if he could have found him. The prisoner was the worse for drink.

The prisoner said he was guilty, but he trusted the magistrates would deal leniently with him, as he did it through drink. He had been a solider 26 years, and had always borne a good character.

Superintendent Everist said the prisoner did not bear good character, and some time ago stole a valuable gold watch.

 

Maidstone and Kentish Journal, 12 September, 1870.

Chatham Police Court. This day Monday.

Before F. E. Guise, Esq., Stipendairy Magistrate
Edward Hodges, landlord of the "Crown and Thistle Inn," High Street, pleaded guilty to having his house open for the sale of beer and other liquors, on Sunday morning,

 28th August.

There were no previous complaints against the house, and the magistrates inflicted a penalty of £2, and 9s. costs.

Paid.

 

LICENSEE LIST

TUBB/TRIBE John 1793+ (Thistle and Crown) Trade Directory 1793

BUTCHER James 1828+ Pigot's Directory 1828-29

WEST Thomas 1832+ Pigot's Directory 1832-34 (273 High Street)

GOLD Richard 1838-51+ (age 50 in 1851Census) Wright's Topography 1838

BURFORD Robert 1858+

WHITE Obadiah 1860

FANCETT/FAWCETT Stephen 1861-62+ (age 52 in 1861Census)

HODGES Edward 1870+

TONKIN Ann 1874-82+ (widow age 62 in 1881Census)

KNOTT Robert 1891+ (age 36 in 1891Census)

https://pubwiki.co.uk/CrownThistle.shtml

 

Trade Directory 1793Universal British Directory of Trade 1793

Pigot's Directory 1828-29From the Pigot's Directory 1828-29

Pigot's Directory 1832-34From the Pigot's Directory 1832-33-34

Wright's Topography 1838Wright's Topography 1838

CensusCensus

 

If anyone should have any further information, or indeed any pictures or photographs of the above licensed premises, please email:-

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