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Northgate
Canterbury
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From the burial register of St Margaret's in Canterbury.
5th April 1669 "John May a servt at the "Qeenes Armes" buried"
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Kentish Gazette, 9 January 1844.
DEATHS.
Jan 4, Charlotte, eldest daughter of Mr. G Rye, landlord of the "Queen's
Arms" public-house, Northgate, Canterbury.
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From the Kentish Gazette, 15 July 1845.
COURT OF BANKRUPTCY — SATURDAY, July 12.
(Before Mr. Commissioner Goulburn)
RE RYE, AN INSOLVENT.
The insolvent, George Rye, of the "Queen's Arms" public-house,
Northgate-street, Canterbury, publican, tailor, and licensed to let post
horses, applied for his interim order and protection.
Mr. Sturgeon, the barrister, supported the Insolvent, and Mr. Buchanan,
Solicitor to the London Commercial Association for the opposition of
Fraudulent Bankrupts and Insolvents, 73, Basinghall street, opposed on
behalf of Mr. Gibbs and other creditors.
Mr. Sturgeon said he had an objection to raise in limine
("at the
threshold,") referring to a motion before a trial begins. A motion to
suppress illegally-obtained evidence is such a motion) to Mr. Buchanan
being heard. A Society, called the London Commercial Association for the
opposition of Fraudulent Bankrupts and Insolvents, had been formed, and
as soon as a person filed his schedule in this court, a copy was
obtained, and every creditor written to, stating that upon forwarding a
post office order for £1 1s. the Association would oppose the Insolvent,
including the charges for counsel, solicitor, &c. (a laugh). He
contended that Mr. Buchanan had no locus standi,
(the right or capacity
to bring an action or to appear in a court,) inasmuch as Messrs.
Constable and Van Boren, the Secretaries of the Association, were the
parties who had been retained to oppose by the creditors, and as they
were not solicitors, Mr. Buchanan could not be heard as their agent. The
learned counsel also complained that the Association were in the habit
of publishing a list of persons who went through the court as fraudulent
insolvents.
Mr. Buchanan handed in the written instructions to oppose the insolvent
from the creditors for whom he appeared, and remarked that the
Association had already been the means of obtaining some thousands of
pounds for creditors.
The learned Commissioner said, Mr. Buchanan need not trouble himself to
reply. He saw nothing unlawful in the Association, nor did he think this
Court, if so inclined, had the power to prevent tradesmen co-operating
together for the protection of their own interests. Bankers had their
association for the prevention of forgeries; and there were many
societies — such as the Animals' Friend Society, the Anti Slavery
Society, and the Society for the Protection of the Public Morals — in
existence which had not a charter. In this instance, a body of
gentlemen, probably thinking their interests were not sufficiently
watched, and that there was an apathy on the part of the public to the
stale of the law between debtor and creditor, associated together for
the purpose of doing that collectively which they could not effect
individually. The legislature had, on the previous night only,
sanctioned a measure dispensing with the oath of a bankrupt and his
wife; and in these days, when it was the fashion to withdraw all
protection from creditors, he thought the objects of the Society
extremely laudable. The learned Commissioner then directed the
opposition to proceed.
Mr. Buchanan said he had three grounds of opposition to the insolvent's
application — first, his making away with his property; secondly,
contracting debts without reasonable prospect of payment; and thirdly,
he believed he should be able to show the schedule was defective.
The insolvent was then sworn, and in the course of a severe
cross-examination he said that he dealt with five brewers at the same
time for goods, and four distillers; he did not tell them that he owed
the others debts, nor that he had paid £1,500 purchase money for his
house. In March last he sold a cart and a pony, and afterwards gave six
separate orders for goods to various tradesmen. He had not misled Mr.
Gibbs, as he was always inducing him to deal with him, and frequently
stood pots of ale, &c. for him to do so. He had not filed the licenses
of his public-house with the official assignee of the Court, because
they had nearly run out. His house was near the barracks, and he
depended chiefly upon the army. He told Mr. Gibbs, when he ordered the
goods of him, that he was indebted to other brewers and distillers, upon
which he said he did not mind that, as the business would improve when
the soldiers returned to Canterbury. He would swear that was true.
The learned Commissioner said he should adjourn the case for the
attendance of Mr. Gibbs, as he was to blame for inducing the insolvent
to get into debt, or the insolvent had sworn to that which was false.
The further consideration of the case was then adjourned to the 26th
instant, the insolvent's debts are £221 0s. 3 3/4d.
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Kent Herald, 17 July 1845.
Court of Bankruptcy. London, Saturday, July, 12. Before Mr. Commissioner
Goulburn. Re Rye, an Insolvent.
The Insolvent George Rye, of the "Queen's Arms" public house, Northgate Street,
Canterbury, publican, tailor, and licensed to let post horses, applied for his
interim order and protection.
Mr. Sturgeon, the barrister, supported the insolvent, and Mr. Buchanan,
solicitor to the London Commercial Association for the opposition of fraudulent
Bankrupts and insolvents, 73, Basinghall-street, opposed on behalf of Mr. Gibbs
and other creditors.
Mr. Sturgeon said he had an objection to raise in limine
("at the
threshold,") to Mr. Buchanan being
heard. A Society, called the London Commercial Association for the opposition of
Fraudulent Bankrupts and Insolvent, had been formed, and as soon as a person
filed his schedule in the court, a copy was obtained, and every creditor written
to, stating that upon forwarding a post office order for £1 1S the Association
would oppose the Insolvent, including the charges for counsel, solicitor, &c.
(a laugh.) He contended that Mr. Buchanan had no locust standi,
(the right or capacity
to bring an action or to appear in a court,) inasmuch as Messers. Constable and Van Buren, the Secretaries of the Association, were the
parties who have been retained to oppose by the creditors, and as they were not
solicitors, Mr. Buchanan could not be heard as their agent. The learning counsel
also complains that the Association were in the habit of publishing a list of
persons who went through the court as fraudulent insolvency.
Mr. Buchanan handed in the written instructions to oppose the insolvent from the
creditors for whom he appeared, and remarked that the Association had already
been the means of obtaining some thousands of pounds for creditors.
The learning Commissioner said, Mr. Buchanan need not trouble himself to reply.
He saw nothing unlawful in the Association, nor did he think this Court, if so
inclined, had the power to prevent tradesmen co-operating together for the
protection of their own interests. Bankers had their association for the
prevention of forgeries; and there were many societies - such as the Animals'
Friends Society, and the Anti Slavery Society, and the Society for the
Protection of the Public Morals - in existence which had not a charter. In this
instance, a body of gentleman, probably thinking their interests were not
sufficiently watched, and that there was an apathy on the part of the public to
the state of the law between debtor and creditor, associated together for the
purpose of doing that collectively which they could not do effect individually.
The legislature had, on the previous night only, sanctions a measure dispensing
with the oath of a bankrupt and his wife; and in these days, when it was the
fashion to withdraw all protection from creditors, he thought the object of the
Society extremely laudable. The learning Commissioner then directed the
opposition to proceed.
Mr. Buchanan said he had three grounds of opposition to the insolvent's
application - first, his making away with his property; secondly, contracting
debts without reasonable prospects of payments; and thirdly, he believed he
should be able to show the schedule was defective.
The insolveny was then sworn, and in the course of a severe cross examination he
said that he dealt with five brewers at the same time for goods, and four
distillers; he did not tell them that he owed the other debts, nor that he had
paid £1500 purchase money for his house. In March last he sold a cart and a pony
and afterwards gave six separate orders for goods to various tradesmen. He had
not misled Mr. Gibbs, as he was always induced in him to deal with him, and
frequently stood pops of ale, \&c. for him to do so. He had not filed the
licenses of his public-house with the official assignee of the Court, because
they had nearly run out. His house was near the barracks, and he depended
chiefly upon the army. He told me Mr. Gibbs, when he ordered the goods of him,
that he was indebted to other brewers and distillers, upon which he said he did
not mind that, as the business would improve when the soldiers returned to
Canterbury. He would swear that was true.
The learned Commissioner said he should adjourn the case for the attendance of
Mr. Gibbs, as he was to blame for inducing the insolvent to get into debt, or
the insolvent had sworn to that which was false.
The further consideration of the case was then adjourned to the 26th instant.
The insolvent's debts are £221 0s. 3 3/4d.
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Kent Herald, 31 July 1845.
Court of Bankruptcy. Saturday, July 25th. Before Mr. Commissioner Fonblanque.
Re Rye, an Insolvent.
The insolvent, George Rye, landlord of the "Queen's Arms," Northgate Street,
Canterbury, and also carrying on the business of a tailor, applied for his final
order and protection.
Mr. Sturgeon, the barrister, supported the application; and Mr. Buchanan,
solicitors to the London Commercial Association for the opposition of fraudulent
bankrupts and insolvents, attending on behalf of Mr. Gibbs, a brewer, and
creditor for upwards of £14.
Mr. Buchanan said, in this case he opposed on behalf of Mr. Gibbs.
Mr. Sturgeon:- Upon the last occasion you opposed for a society, whose circular
I hold in my hand.
Mr. Buchanan:- I have a letter from Mr. Gibbs, and two letters from the
insolvent to that gentleman, which I intend to put into contradict the insolvent
on his oath. The point has already been settled by Mr. Commissioner Goulburn,
before whom the case previously came, that the Court cannot enquire into the
particular circumstances under which are professional gentleman receives every
retainer.
Mr. Commissioner Fonblanque:- I am sorry to differ from Mr. Commissioner
Goulburn; but I entertain a very strong opinion on this subject. I think it is
very oppressive that a man should be opposed by society when he applies to this
Court for relief; and one of my objections is, that societies like corporations
have no conscience. They press very frequently hard against debtors, and I
cannot allow an opposition under such circumstances.
Mr. Buchanan:- The point was fully discussed and gone into upon the last
occasion, and an objection has also been taken by Mr. Cooke, and overruled by
Mr. Commissioner Fane.
Mr. Commissioner Fonblanque:- I wish to speak with as much respect of Mr.
Commissioner Fane, who is now present, as I have done of Mr. Commissioner
Goulburn; but I must say that in this respect I will not be bound by the
decision of either.
Mr. Ssturgeon:- The society sent no less than nine different circulars round to
the creditors of this poor man, offering, upon the receipt of a guinea, to hold
them harmless from any further expenses of opposition. The letter (a printed
one) was signed James W. Constable, and it was that individual who had
instructed Mr. Buchanan on this occasion. They had appended a list, of which
they pleased to call fraudulent debtors, to their circulars; and amongst other
names appeared that of a respectable artist, named George Grosvenor Bullock,
whom I attended for, and where interim order was merely adjourned because he
obtained a gun, which he could not pay for, to enable him to accept an
invitation to shoot over a nobleman's estate.
Mr. Commissioner Fonblanque:- If that statement be inaccurate, you may take
proceedings elsewhere.
Mr. Sturgeon:- I will hand up the circular received by Mr. Charles Benham, of
Canterbury, who is a friendly creditor. (The learned gentleman here handed the
circular to the commissioner.)
Mr. Commission Fonblanque, to Mr. Buchanan:- Are you retained by any individual
creditor to oppose?
Mr Buchanan:- I am by Mr. Gibbs. In proof of it I beg to hand in a letter from
Mr. Gibbs to myself; also his invoice against the insolvent, and two letters
from him to my client, promising payment.
Mr. Sturgeon:- Do you not think your honour, that Mr. Buchanan, ought to have a
retainer. The last time he appeared for the society.
Mr. Commissioner Fonblanque:- I think so; but there is no rule of Court to that
effect. If an attorney says he has been retained, I am bound to hear him without
inquiring into his circumstances how he retained such retainer; but if he says
he appears for a society, I will not take cognizance of his opposition for the
reason I have stated.
The insolvent was then examined at some length, and stated that he had been two
or three years in a state of insolvency, and not able to pay 20s. in the pound.
A distress was put into his house on the 27th of May last, and he had since been
using the furniture on payment of a shilling per week for it. He sold a pony to
Mr. Ford for £7 10s., which money he used in his business. He had not filed the
licenses of the "Queen's Arms" with the official assignee because they were
nearly out, and he thought them of so little value. He wrote a letter to Mr.
Gibbs on the 8th of May, and ordered half a hogshead of beer and half a barrel
of ale, he sent him £1, promising him more on the Saturday following. On the
17th of May he again wrote to him for beer and promised to pay him £2 10s. but
it was not delivered, he was obliged to layout his money elsewhere. He filed his
schedule on the 26th of May.
Mr. Buchanan:- Now, if you have been insolvent two or three years, what
reasonable assurance had you of paying Mr. Gibbs for beer?
Insolvent:- I hope worked for him as a tailor, and expected more work for his
man, that did not get it.
Mr. Buchanan submitted that he had shown that the insolvent had obtained five
small parcels of goods without having a reasonable prospect of paying for them.
The Learned Commissioner entertained a different opinion. They work goods
obtained in his trade, and he expected to pay for them out of his profits he
derived in his business, and by making more clothes.
After some further conversation, the Court granted the insolvent his final order
and protection.
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From the Kentish Gazette, 12 September 1848.
GENERAL LICENSING DAY.
Thursday being the annual licensing day of victuallers, in Canterbury,
the magistrates were occupied some time in making the necessary
preparations, and they granted licenses to a hundred and twenty-seven
persons; four others being absent, will have theirs at a future sitting. The
licenses taken from W. Cullen, "Queen’s Arms"; W. Hunt, "Three
Grenadiers," Military-road; George Roberts, "Queen's
Head," Northgate;
and R. Walpole, "Roebuck," Northgate were restored; and the application
made by J. B. Allen for a license of the "Golden Cross,"
Northgate was granted.
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Kentish Gazette, 10 September 1850.
On the annual licensing day (Thursday last) our city magistrates
suspended the following licenses:-
"Military Tavern," King Street;
"Eight
Bells," King Street;
"Duke of York," Riding Gate;
"Kentish Arms," Jewry
Lane;
"Eagle," Whitehorse Lane;
"Golden Cross," Northgate;
"Queen's
Head," Northgate;
"City of London," Tower Street;
"Duke's Head," Wincheap;
"True Briton," Northgate;
"Royal George," Northgate;
"Queen's
Arms," Northgate; and
"Three Grenadiers," Military Road.
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Kentish Gazette, 24 September 1850.
At the adjourned petty sessions for licensing public houses on Thursday,
those licences which have been suspended excepting for for the "Eight
Bells," King Street,
"Queen's
Head," and
"Queen's
Arms," Northgate, we're
granted; as also were a few of the cases of parties who were not in
attendance on the regular licensing day.
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From a report to the Mayor and Magistrates in Guildhall
on 17th April 1859.
"Sergeant Ells reports that he found the following number of
Prostitutes at the following public houses and beer-shops yesterday
morning:
"Queen's Arms," Northgate, 1.
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South Eastern Gazette, 27 November, 1860.
Protection Cases.
The following insolvent petitioners passed their first
examination, and were allowed protection till the next court Wm.
Cullen, formerly of the "Queen’s Arms," Northgate-street.
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Only found from the above passage regarding prostitutes on the premises.
Unfortunately no other information has been found at present.
Latest research found on the "Poem of Canterbury" notes say that the pub
changed name to the "Jolly Gardener's" around about 1867. My research says
the "Jolly Gardener's" was there in 1858.
LICENSEE LIST
RYE G Mr 1844-45
CULLEN William 1848-60

https://pubwiki.co.uk/QueensArms.shtml
From Melville's Directory 1858
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