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Notes of 1908


From the Dover Express and East Kent News, 26 January, 1908.


On Friday a meeting  of the Magistrates was held for the purpose of selecting the licenses that the police should be asked to oppose at the annual Licensing Meeting on February 10th, with a view to being reported to Quarter Sessions for extinction by compensation. We understand that it was decided that four houses should be brought for review before the Magistrates as follows: The "Canterbury Bell," Tower Hamlets, The "Old Fountain," Caroline Place, the "Devonshire Arms," High Street; and the "Ordnance Arms," Queen Street. There is, however, very little probability of the Quarter Sessions taking away more than two licenses, as hitherto Sittingbourne and Faversham have not reported and licences to Quarter Sessions for compensation. They are now sending a long list, and the Quarter Sessions will have to deal with them, and in view of the additional demand the compensation fund will not admit of more than two houses being closed in Dover. Next week a meeting of the Magistrates will be held to elect a Licensing Committee.


From the Kent and Sussex Courier, 7 February, 1908.

Supt. Styles in his annual report to the licensing justices, said the licensees had generally conducted their houses in a satisfactory manner, with the following exceptions: Sidney J. Bowles, "Kent Arms," Paddock Wood; John Henry Head, "Blue Boys," Brenchley; George Gardiner, "Albion Inn," Hadlow; selling adulterated rum; Ann Sarah Glover, "White Horse Inn," Tonbridge, serving a constable on duty; Robert E. Daish, "Rose and Crown," Tonbridge, serving a constable on duty; Frank Paskins, "Chequers Inn," Tonbridge, permitting drunkenness; Charles F. Collins, "Nelson Inn," Tonbridge, being drunk on his own premises. These houses had since been conducted in a satisfactory manner. He was also pleased to state that there had been a great decrease in drunkenness among residents, and also non-residents, viz. 28 residents, and 8 non-residents.


From the Dover Express and East Kent News, 14 August, 1908.


At the Dover Police Court on Friday morning before the Mayor (Walter Emden, Esq.), and other magistrates, the following licences transfers were granted:- The "Mile Stone," London Road, from Joseph Herbert Russell to Edwin Stock, of Canterbury; the beer off-licence at 95, Clarendon Place, from John William Wiles to William Joseph Mareh Castle, of 26, Priory Road, compositor; The "New Mogul," Chapel Place, from George Collins to Alfred Booker, of Kearsney, coachman; "Prince Imperial," Strond Street, from William George Warne to Harry O'Donoghue Vosper, of Ashford, agent to Allsopp's Ltd.; the "Swan," Strond Street, from William G. Wood to Annie Widdicombe Webb, late of 128, Snargate Street, boarding house proprietor; the "Trocadero," Snargate Street, and the beer, wine and spirit off-licence 9, High Street, from Edward Lukey to John Edward Lukey, Bench Street, director of John Lukey and Sons, Ltd. In the case of the "Trocadero" and High Street off-licences, Dr, Hardman, who made the application, produced probate o the late Mr. Edward Lukey's estate, for the production of which the application had been previously adjourned.

The licence of the "Albion Hotel," Broadstairs, was transferred from Arthur C. C. Beach to Mrs. Fannie Caroline Callison, late of Tufnell Park, London.


From the Dover Express and East Kent News, Friday, 28 August, 1908.



The famous "two of ale" prosecutions which caused such a large amount of interest, both locally and throughout Kent, and led to a split in the licensed victuallers' in the town, is recalled by a notice which is this week being shown in the window of Mr. Harley's china shop in Snargate Street. It states that "Two's of ale may now be legally served to customers in a glass specially made for the purpose, which can be obtained of J. Harley.

Mr. Harley pointed out to a representative of this paper who saw him on the subject, that the recent prosecution was taken under the section of the Statutory Rules and under the Weights and Measures Acts, which sates that a glass measure used for the sale of intoxicating liquor "shall not be stamped unless the capacity is defined either (a) by the rim of the measure, or (b) by a line at least two inches in length, distant not less than half an inch or more than 1 inches from the rim." The whole case rested on the fact that the ale was sold in a measure which was unstamped this being a clear infringement of the law. Mr. Harley claims that the new glass satisfies all the requirements of the Revenue authorities, while it still retains the old measure, and this would seem to be the case, for it is quite in accord with the clause of the Act referred to above, and as Mr. Harley pointed out, had it been of an illegal size, the authorities would have refused to stamp it. The glass in question is of exactly the same size as the old "two of ale" glasses, its capacity being two thirds of a pint, and the half pint is marked by a line about an inch from the rim. Mr. Hartley said that when he introduced the new measure a fortnight ago, there has been a huge demand for it by the licensed victuallers of the town, and thanks to the introduction, Dovorians are able to purchase their ale in their favourite measure as of old.

With a view to verifying this statement, our representative saw a prominent member of the Licensed Victuallers' Defence Society, which, it will be remembered, owed its formation to the case referred to, and through its solicitor, Dr. Hardman, defended Mr. Ryder, again whom the test case was taken, and was informed by him that such is virtually the case. As Dr. Hardman pointed out to the Bench, he said there were many legal ways of getting round the law. The usual way of doing this in serving this measure, which is in vogue of the most parts of the country, is to draw half a pint of ale in a half pint measure, pour it into a pint pot, and then add a small quantity, this being known as "the long pull." The new glass serves the same purpose in an easier way. Most of the members of the Society are now using it, and it has hinted that not a few of the members of the older Association, which opposed the selling of "two's," are adopting the "long pull." The "pull" is known by a variety of names, among them being the "long half pint," but the old name has been dropped since the prosecution. 


From the Dover Express and East Kent News, Friday, 23 September, 1908.




The Council of the Licensed Victuallers' Defence league yesterday continued and concluded its sittings at Torquay, Mr. Isaac Turner (Liverpool) in the chair. There was again a full attendance of members.

Mr. H. G. Robinson (the secretary) laid before the Council some correspondence which had taken place between himself, the Dover Association, and the Standards Departments of the Board of Trade relating to the popular drink measure known as a "two of ale." It appeared from this correspondence at the inspector of weights and measures at Dover addressed in December last a letter to the District Licensed Victuallers' Protection Society, calling in question the legality of this drink measure used there. The inspector having subsequently cautioned various licensed victuallers against selling the "two of ale" the Dover Society issued a circular to its members warning them that it could not be held responsible for defending any member who might be proceeded against for serving this alleged illegal measure.

The result of communications by the council of the league to the Board of Trade was that that department wrote that the glass measure referred to and used by Dover tradesmen (a specimen of which was submitted for their inspection) "is in accordance with Regulation 35 of the Board of Trade Regulations, 1907, and could be lawfully used for the sale of quantities of a half pint, but the Board can express no authoritative opinion as to whether a person using such a glass to sell "two of ale" would not be liable to conviction under the Licensing Act, 1872."

In the course of the discussion which followed the reading of the correspondence, several delegates repudiated this form of measure in all its forms of a "half pint and dash," "a blue," "a schooner," "a long pull," and a "two of ale" Mr. Warren (Norwich) remarked that they had long been objected to by the honest trader.

The president said that personally he thought that the competition between publicans should not be in the quantity but in quality.

A resolution was adopted that the Dover Society be informed that it was to use the measure in question to sell a half pint of ale, but not any quantity over half a pint.


From the Dover Express and East Kent News, Friday, 23 September, 1908.



At the Licensed Victuallers' Defence League meeting yesterday, Mr. H. G. Robinson read a communication from  the Dover and District Licensed Victuallers' Society with regard to the charges made on bottles. It came that it is the custom in Dover and district for brewers to charge their tenants 2s., and even more, per dozen according to size, while the private customer no charge whatsoever is made. This is considered by the Dover Society to be a great hardship, and detrimental to licence holders generally, and the League were therefore asked to find some way by which licence holders and private customers were at least treated on the same footing.

A suggestion was made by the Secretary that the matter should be dealt with at a representative conference of brewers and bottlers, with a view to arriving at a uniformity of charge.

The vice-President, Mr. Tarr, strongly advocated the formation of conciliation boards, believing that by this means they would solve the great problem of the differences between the wholesale and retail departments of the trade, and secure more amiable working together.

The Secretary's suggestion was adopted.


From the Whitstable Times and Herne Bay Herald, 24 October, 1908.


The supplemental meeting of the East Kent Licensing Committee met at the Sessions House, Longport, Canterbury, on Monday for the purpose of considering claims for compensation under the Licensing Act of 1904. Lord Harris presided, the other members of the Committee present being Lieut.-Colonel S. Newton-Dickenson, Messrs. F. H. Wilbee, H. Fitzwalter Plumptre, J. H. Monins. F. E. Burke, F. Cheesmsn, and A. Flint. The majority of the agreements as to terms of compensation between owners and tenants were signed, only four cases being referred to the Inland Revenue. The following agreements were signed:—

Prince of Wales," Milton Regis; owners, Style and Winch, Ltd.; amount, 338; tenant, T. E. Wallis, 70.

"Saddler’s Arms," Milton Regis, Style and Winch, Ltd., 563, John Cook 88.

"Ship," Milton Regis, F. Leney and Co., Wateringbury 795. W. A. Ward 134.

Cumberland Arms," Milton Regis, F. Leney and Co. 669, W. Pretty 100.

"Canterbury Bell," Dover, G. Beer and Co. 932, A. Shorter 100.

"Old Fountain," Dover, Dartford Brewery Co. Ltd.. and Thos. Martin (and others), Hornsey, Middlesex (mortgagee), 489 to mortgagee, C. F. Bliss 76.

"Ordnance Arms." Dover, A. Leney and Co. 1,100, C. Wallace 128.

"Devonshire Arms," Dover, T. Phillips and Co., Ltd., 354. R. W. Charles 96.

"Bricklayers’ Arms," Folkestone, G. Beer and Co. 1,125, J. Wormall 75.

"Railway Inn," Folkestone, Ash and Co., 1,520, W. Hopkins 136.

"Sportsman Inn," Hythe, Mackeson and Co., 793 to owners.

"Volunteer Inn," Ramsgate, Tomson and Wotton 611, J. W. Galloway 165.

"Prince of Wales," Ramsgate, Tomson and Wotton, 630, Luca Gatti 96.

"Pear Tree," Pegwell, Gardner and Co. 497, H. C. Bishop 10.

"Royal George," New Romney, A. Leney and Co., 399, W. Upton 89.

"Army and Navy," Walmer, Thompson and Son, Ltd., 232, B. Horner 14.

The following cases were referred to Inland Revenue:—

"Jolly Sailor," Milton Regis, owners Messrs. Budden and Biggs, Ltd., Rochester, tenant J. M. L. Delvin.

"Eagle," Folkestone, Messrs. Style and Winch, Ltd., W. H. White.

"Freemasons’ Arms," Ramsgate, Flint and Son, Canterbury, A. H. Trimble.

"Marine Tavern," Ramsgate, A. H. Taylor, London, tenant F. J. Sayse.